Lit Societies in SW

Do you really think a democarcy implies freedom?

Up till now, I have never seen a state of government in which freedom is being involved.
If you have power or money, you can do whatever you want.

 

It all depends on your point of view.

It all depends on who wins in the end.

It all depends on the way you were brought up.

It all depends on which class you are part of.

If Napoleon won the Battle of Waterloo, a lot of people would be more positive of him.
If you were a noble under a Middle East dictator, you wouldn't like the uprising of the common people these days.

 

Insects are people, too.

 

Empire wasn't exactly fascist. There is a reason it was called an empire. The word fascism is the most misused word in modern history.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned living under Mandalorian rule.

 

You mean common religious fanatics.

 

You are right! So many people love the Roman Empire...
Do you really think much freedom was allowed in the Roman Empire?

I would rather be secure and have no freedom than the other way around.

 

For example, Libya - Gaddafi

 

Well Rome was an Empire when it was a Republic, much like the US...

 

Problem is, in the Roman Empire, slaves often had neither security nor freedom.

 

I wouldn't want anyone telling me to shut the hell up. You cannot be secure in a corrupt system.

There are so many misunderstood facts about Rome starting from democracy and ending with slavery. There were so many contradictions. A citizen of Rome was a citizen of Rome, and nobody could just take away his rights just like that. There is a reason, why many emperors built temples and such just to make the masses satisfied, which means that plebs had a huge influence. No emperor wanted those plebs hating him.

Why do people love to compare USA to Rome? USA is not Roman empire. Stop it, people! You have no idea what you are talking about!

 

What was the reason?

 

Agreed! The USA is definitely not an Empire!

 

Hopefully, you do not think all people who start an uprising are religious fanatics...

 

Of course not. I was merely pointing out the tendencies of the recent global events.

 

In the context of Star Wars all galaxy-spanning governmental systems are deeply flawed. It is simply impossible to govern that many thinking beings spread across that many planets and representing that many varied species effectively. The only real way to make a judgment is to try and determine which system is most effective in providing essential government services while minimizing the damage to those groups that inevitably stand oppossed to its very functional premise. Regretably this sort of study relies upon detailed demographic data we simply do not possess.

Further, there are no test cases. While the Empire of Palpatine came closest of any authoritarian system to ruling the entire galaxy, it never fully implemented its principle method of government - direct control via military-backed regional authority - into the Core, and thereby exempted about half the galactic population from the true Imperial experience (presumably Palpatine would have gotten around to it in a few decades post-Endor). Besides, that Empire, like so many similar states before it, was controlled by the Sith. In theory an enlightened dictatorship migt prove more resistant to corruption than a highly diffuse democracy, but with the dark side ultimately giving the orders...that can't be evaluated.

Two slightly more relevant examples do exist: the Empire of the Hand constructed by Grand Admiral Thrawn, and the Fel Empire of the Legacy comics. However we have very little detail regarding the internal structure of either.

Theoretically the Imperial system of hard rules without exemptions and a single, overriding authority might, might be superior to a democratic one that must include nearless countless alien viewpoints that are at times inherently contradictory - the question is what happens at the margins: is the direct oppression via design of some percentage of the galactic populace that is incapable of living in a functional fashion under Imperial law a better bargain than the chaotic mess unleashed by an inherently weak democracy unable to impose strong governance upon its members? Big question, probably the question of the Star Wars EU, but I don't think a definitive answer is even possible, never mind desirable.

 

Living in the Imperial Remnant under Pellaeon would be nice too I think

 

And such tends to be the line from just about every authoritarian or totalitarian system Jello, there's always an external enemy to rally the people against but internal security will always seek to justify itself.

If they don't invite me, I will invite them!

I won't cross any lines.

Security for Humans! Do you honestly want an Anzati or a Florn Lamproid living next door?

By the way, you're the one with the Eclipse as an avatar! [/quote]

1. Again though, why would your invite stand out?

2. You don't know what they are or where they are - good luck!

3. Damn straight - all the better to superlaser you!

Part of this is me playing around, the other, more serious part is there tends to be a casual contempt for democracy in these sort of threads, yet guess what sort of society most people are posting from?

 

There is nothing casual at all about my contempt for democracy, I say!

 

Really? Seriously? Outside of Imperial roleplays and net personas?

 

To coin a phrase, THIS.

 

Let's bring in Winston then Jello:

Incoherent? No, it simply says there's lots of flaws with democracy and there's plenty to be discussed with regard to the form of it.

Now, you and I have discussed this previously - I know you advocate separating out democracy and freedom as two concepts that can exist by themselves just fine. I am very sceptical of that - concepts like rule of law have generally been most strongly linked to democracies, now why is that? Why do democracies allow a judiciary that can oppose them? Why have rival power centres at all? The answer tends to be because they're needed and democracies tend to have a certain level of confidence to permit them.

But, unlike you, I don't buy that the Empire has any such interest in freedom or any such other institutions for its populace, the populace exist to serve the Empire - not the other way around. The law exists for the Emperor alone and is what he says it is.

Admit it's a fiction and a fantasy and I'd likely not care a whit, but I do seriously get the notion an awful lot of posters, posting online from free and secure environments, have a questionable love for and real desire to live under a system that would treat them quite badly in reality. Behind the cool stuff of TIEs and Star Destroyers there is something dark and malevolent. That's one of the main points of the films after all.

 

If that was aimed at me, then yes, really, seriously.