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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Tales of the Jedi continuity

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darklordoftech, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    If you mean the difference between a willing and an unwilling host body, the difference is that if the host is willing, Exar and Ulic aren't being appointed by some innocent guy. Being possessed againt your will seems "un-Star Wars" to me.
     
  2. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I think the reason they made the "reigning Dark Lord" Ragnos was to create a parellel between the Sadow/Kressh duel and the Kun/Ulic duel.
     
  3. CMShake

    CMShake Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 22, 2010
    I always just assumed Ragnos had a massively inflated ego, to the point of being unreliable.
     
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  4. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    QFT
    Still, why would he claim to have been around "as the Republic drives us (the Sith) to extinction" and why would the NARRATION call him the "reigning Dark Lord"?
     
  5. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    I mean that "some worshipper" of Ragnos is by definition a "poor sap". :p[/quote]
     
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  6. CMShake

    CMShake Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jun 22, 2010
    I just reread that section. He never claimed to be alive during those events, just around (to pop in with expostion). That entire quote (below) is just really oddly written, but it sounds more like he was lumping the GHW arc of the story as his time.

    "In my time, even as the Galactic Republic battles us to extiction, we now secure the future, when the sith will take thier revenge!"
     
  7. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    "Around" as in available or around as in near that time?
     
  8. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 10, 2005
    Since the Republic was not at war with any Sith powers at the time, it strikes me as silly to assume the figure was referring to a present conflict.
     
  9. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    He's obviously not talking about Kun and Ulic's time.
     
  10. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

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    Aug 10, 2005
    My apologies - I was tired and misread your argument.
     
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  11. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
  12. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    I seem to remember contradictory accounts of Sadow either being murdered by Freedon Nadd or having his spirit completely destroyed like Nadd's would eventually be. I guess the TOR video just clarifies that it was the former since his spirit still exists centuries later and possesses Not Kit Fisto.
     
  13. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Let's not be speciesist.

    The lore had always been that Nadd probably destroyed Sadow's spirit until Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia said that Nadd did destroy Sadow's spirit.
     
  14. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    The issue here is that TOR seems to contradict Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. Could someone ask about this on the swtor.com forums?
     
  15. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    The CSWE also says Jedi ghosts are identical to Sith ghosts and that both are selfishly in denial of the will of the Force.

    I'd take everything in it with a pinchtruckload of salt :p
     
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  16. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Tell Wookieepedia that.
     
  17. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 16, 2007
    Idg what the big deal is here. A factoid in CSWE was overruled by a later narrative. If we need a retcon maybe Nadd thought he destroyed Sadow's spirit but he didn't because he sucks. Or maybe an OOU sourcebook was wrong.
     
  18. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    The big deal is that wookieepedia treats the word of CSWE as fact. Of course, it's also possible that Gnost-Dural was wrong.
     
  19. Dr. Steve Brule

    Dr. Steve Brule Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 7, 2012
    What does this have to do with anything?
     
  20. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Someone better correct them.
     
  21. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    Paging Delbert Grady...
     
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  22. TheMerchant

    TheMerchant Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2020
    I just finished Tales of the Jedi and found this thread. Basically, right up until "The Sith War" began to bring in retcons I'd say this was the original history that TOTJ presented to us taking statements at face value:

    1000 years before Kun and Ulics duel, Ragnos (known at the time only as the Reigning dark Lord of the Sith) is creating a vision just for them when the Republic is attacking his empire and hunting the Sith and their rulers down within the amulets that belonged to Kun and Ulic respectively

    "Many centuries" before said duel Naga Sadow rebels against the Dark Lord of his time and is also branded as a criminal by the Republic and heads to Yavin IV, using the dark side superweapon that is his starship to cause the Denarii stars to become a "cosmic Holocaust" causing the death of a star system.

    400 years before their duel Nadd is apprenticed to a Dark Lord of the Sith and for whatever reason rather than becoming the next Dark Lord leaves and decides to rule Onderon instead.

    Some other interesting things to note: Naga Sadow was a pureblood Sith Magician who hated the Dark Lords of the Sith. This implies a significant amount of Sith people hated the Dark Lords and the Dark Jedi that accompanied them. Also, he looked very human like along with a couple of followers we see. This barring the Massassi are the only times we see "Sith people" good chance Sith originally looked human in appearance and Massassi were a slave race warped by the dark side.

    "Dark Lord of the Sith" was a title meant for the most powerful Dark Jedi who ruled the Sith people, a member of the Sith species was NOT able to become a Dark Lord nor a Dark Jedi. Dark Jedi as well were not ever called "Sith" since that was the name for the alien species ONLY. Dark Jedi at the time were as the name suggests Jedi who fell to the dark side.

    There was only ever ONE Dark Lord at a time, the rest were simply known as Dark Jedi. No Sith Lords or other titles were said in the OG run until the prequel series "Golden age of the Sith" and "The Fall of the Sith Empire" which brought in the term "Sith Lords"

    Marka Ragnos and for the most part all the Dark Jedi we've seen all appeared to look human or very human like, no such thing as hybrids were stated in the OG series.

    This might be me reading a bit too much but I'd like to believe the Dark Jedi had a sense of HONOR amongst themselves and the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith. Vodo stated a Dark Jedi who was apprenticed to a Dark Lord of the Sith can either abandon their teachings and stop trying to become a Dark Lord and do their own thing or were simply too weak to become a Dark Lord and were not chosen. Dark Jedi were never said in the story to try and overthrow the Dark Lord of the Sith to claim the mantle for themselves and betrayal was never said to be a thing. Only Naga Sadow was mentioned in attacking a Dark Lord and as mentioned already was a Pureblood Sith, not a Dark Jedi.

    Freedon Nadd was NOT apprenticed to Naga Sadow, he was apprenticed to an unknown Dark Lord and went to Onderon after learning from him. Sadow was a Sith Magician and in the context of the original series there is a good chance Nadd never even MET Sadow, always speaking of him as a person from history. Sadow never lived abnormally long as far as we know.

    Nadd was NOT a Dark Lord of the Sith in the original series, he was just was a Dark Jedi. It is never said WHY he never became one, although he was in communication with Ragnos spirit with the implication Ragnos was giving orders to Nadd to make Kun a Dark Jedi. Nadd might have simply just left his teachings to conquer a planet under his namesake using Sith powers.

    Although this was never retconned there is well over one hundred thousand years of Sith history locked away in the Dark Holocron waiting to be discovered.

    This doesn't have to do with the Sith but Ood Bnar describes users of the Dark side in ancient times being able to erect kingdoms and cause entire planets to fall to the dark side and even star systems, such as we saw the Ketos accomplish later in life.
     
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  23. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I was sure that Freedon Nadd found and was apprenticed to Naga Sadow, who he then killed. @TheMerchant, the retcon is implied that he found Naga in stasis, killed him, and his spirit continues on into the Old Republic era.

    The hundred thousand years of Sith history in the Dark Holocron follows the general consensus that the Sith were involved in the Cosmic Wars, and of course the various non-Adas references to Sith dominions on Alpherides, Doan (or Kaon, I forget), Alsakan, etc etc follows the comments of Ood Bnar that the Sith were ancient galactic rulers to some extent.
     
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  24. TheMerchant

    TheMerchant Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Going by the comics themselves Nadd was apprenticed to a Dark Lord of the Sith which Sadow was NOT in the original story, just a powerful Sith Magician. I believe the TOTJ companion is when they say Nadd was apprenticed to Sadow.

    Oh yeah, the stuff regarding Supernatural Encounters. Interesting, I do like that idea. In the publisher summary for Golden age of the Sith it stayed Marka Ragnos ruled the Galaxy with an Iron fist, the story itself was far different however. Maybe some Apocryphal lore got snucked in there? If aso then up until Ragnos time the Sith people could have indeed ruled the Galaxy with those hundreds.of thousands.of years being what Bnar describes as the Siths slow but sure domination of the galaxy.

    The Republic could have even been made to defeat the Sith as they increased in power.
     
  25. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Ah I like these old school takes of ancient history free of retcons. Refreshing for a change this minimalism and going back to original texts and ideas.

    Most ideas though seem to mirror greek mythology and the general ageold concept of order arising from chaos. That darkness, evil, etc. had to have been around before the good golden age and saviors came. It is funny that all creation depictions, be they biblical, mythological, scientific or else always describe the origin as "nothing, dark, black" and then a violent birth of the universe be it via big bang or else. It's as if humanity cannot imagine it any other way, always having to subconsciously draw paralells to an infants own subconscious recollections of its own birth. Through a dark chasm into the light, into the world.

    I'd like to see a creation myth doing the contrary. One where the origin is order and light, not chaos and darkness. Where there is no primordeal evil, but at the beginning there is only light, peace, order harmony... and evil only arrived much later in the world, grown from it, within it. Not been around before it.

    Thus I still believe, yes the Sith once ruled the galaxy before the Republic, but no they were not evil back then but more neutral or good Forceusers. Kinda like the killiks too had good times as Architects before the Dark Nest.

    Note, whenever it is spoken about them ruling the galaxy they say Sith, not Dark Lords of the Sith, right? And as noted by others above, they are very distinct about who and when they call someone Dark Lord and when just Sith or else. Also the TOTJ comics show the Krath and Sith more as a society even that is accepted in some parts of the galaxy, be it Sith magicians, Sith Kings, etc. as if Sith is nothing inherently evil but just an ancient concept, cult or like former royalty that still has some benefits but no longer is the ruling class. Like nobility in a time where aristocracy is no longer worth much beyond their holdings.
     
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