Amph One Thread To Rule Them All: The Rings of Power + The Hobbit & Lord of the Rings Trilogies

Speaking of dragons, I should mention that I regularly fantasise about the moment an enraged Smaug soars "blazing into the air" and settles "on the mountain-top in a spout of green and scarlet flame." In 48fps, heck in any frame rate, it's going to be simply tremendous.

 

Am I right to observe that The Hobbit and Lord Of The Rings is at a time when magic is going out of the world? "The time of men", Gandalf leaves with the elves, Smaug is the last dragon, etc.

 

Yes.

 

Hmm. To adventure in a world one must ask, "Do I wish there to be a dragon or vampire or goblin or evil wizard or assassin or conspiracy or thieves guild or evil knight around every corner or perhaps have a nice stay in a town or beach wothout worrying about the next Thing that could consume me?"

 

Right there with ya. That'd be a good movie.

 

Luthien and Beren too.

The story of Feanor.

Tuor, Idril, Maeglin, and the Fall of Gondolin would be another.

Dior and the Fall of Doriath.

The War of Wrath (though they'd have to write most of the story, since that one has always been hazy, but it would be awesome to see) and the founding of Numenor.

The Fall of Numenor and the founding of Gondor/Arnor.



... yeah, we could definitely get 7 good movies out of the Silmarillion.

 

So much lore. The Hobbit is the only Tolkien book I will have read. I have a long reading list, culminating this year in the 10th and final Chronicles Of Thomas Covenant book. I am not sure how much room I have for Everything Tolkien.

 

Wow, Chris Tolkien sure does hate everything about Peter Jackson's movies.

 

Once you finish the Hobbit, I would go straight to the Silmarillion. If you read the Silmarillion first then it will really enhance your reading of Lord of the Rings.

Didn't he disown his son, because he wanted to help make the LOTR movies?

Christopher Tolkien is a great editor, and I'm really thankful for al the work he's done... but I think he misses his father's main message.

 

Christopher Tolkien won't permit any further cinematic adaptations. I read this today on TOR.n on the subject.

EDIT: Beaten to the punch by darthcaedus1138. A better punch, at that.

 

No more balrogs? That is my favorite scene(so far).

 

Didn't someone post a translation of the original Le Monde interview here already? I remember I read about it ages ago...

 

Oh, and if we're talking about which part of Silmarillion to film, I'd suggest filming Monty Python's Fifteen Minute Silmarillion. Much shorter, easier, cheaper - and covers pretty much everything.

 

When I did my LOTR project, I came up with . . . ten, I think? Let's see.

Well, looks like thirteen for the Quenta, plus a few more if you take it up through the end of the Second Age. See below:


Movie 1 – The Father of All – from the creation to the journey of the Elves to Valinor

Movie 2 – The Making of the Jewels – from Feanor’s creation of the Silmarils to Fingon’s rescue of Maedhros from Morgoth’s tower

Movie 3 – The Two Visions – from Ulmo’s prophecies to Finrod and Turgon to Thingol’s break with the Noldor

Movie 4 – The Dark Elf – from Aredhel’s departure from Gondolin to the alliance between men and elves

Movie 5 – The Sudden Flame – from Glaurung’s assault to Beren’s lone survival

Movie 6 – The Burning Jewel – from Beren’s arrival in Doriath to Luthien’s reclamation of Beren from the dead

Movie 7 – The Unnumbered Tears – from Maedhro’s claim on Thingol’s Silmaril to Hurin’s capture by Morgoth

Movie 8 – The Broken Land – from Hurin’s binding on the stone chair to Turin’s discovery of his curse

Movie 9 – The Master of Fate – from Turin’s arrival in Nargothrond to Turin’s death

Movie 10 – The Wandering of Hurin – from Hurin’s freeing by Morgoth to his suicide after leaving Doriath

Movie 11 – The Fall of the Sindar – from Thingol’s gaining of the Silmaril to the final destruction of Doriath

Movie 12 – The Final Hero – from Tuor’s message to Turgon to Tuor’s journey into the West

Movie 13 – The War of Wrath – From Earendil’s voyage to Morgoth’s defeat

Movie 14 – The Wilder Sea – from Aldarion’s childhood to Ancalime’s cutting off Middle Earth

Movie 15 – The Shadow Falls – from the choosing of Ministar as the Queen’s Heir to his reluctant yielding of the throne to Ciryatan

Movie 16 – The Forgotten Son – from Vanimelde’s ascension to the throne to Alcarin’s eventual ascension after Herucalmo’s death

Movie 17 – The Promised Redemption – from Ar-Gimilzor’s ascension to the throne to Pharazon’s usurpation of the throne from Miriel

Movie 18 – The Downfall – from Pharazon’s journey to Middle Earth to make Sauron his vassal to Elendil and his sons washing up on the shores of Middle Earth after the Downfall.

 

Ar-Pharazon: "I knew I shouldn't have done that."

 

Just a wee note to say how much I appreciated Elrond's Offscreen Moment of Awesome when his company offed the Wargs which threatened Thorin's own company. Which showed just how badass Elves could be (as if Helm's Deep and the Prologue from LOTR didn't establish that enough already), but also that, far from growing complacent after Sauron's fall, Elrond was one of those Royals Who Actually Do Something, and that he was personally commited to fighting for peace in the North of Middle-Earth. Or, in Boromir's words, "by the blood of our people are your lands kept safe"...

Cheers,
Lauré

 

Another little touch I love about this movie is a very subtle reference to the text in the FOTR novel. In the chapter "The Shadow of the Past," Gandalf is relating to Frodo about the Ring's history and why it decided to abandon Gollum. Frodo then asks "What, just in time to meet Bilbo? Wouldn't an Orc have suited it better?" And so in the movie, the Ring falls out of Gollum's pocket right when he's scuffling with the injured goblin.

 

Though I do question why they decided to change their uniforms only in color. I mean the gold plate with blue cloth was so nice, and Gondor already has silver armor. Did the gold coloring get to expensive Elrond?

Also I wonder if Galadriel is just going to Dol Guldur in her dress and bring the fortress down of if she'll wear some armor. Cause personally I could believe it both ways with the power she emanates with her presence.

 

Filming Silmarillion would be like making a film out of a history book that includes a legend of how world began and then every important event in Europe from the last 10 000 years. Every film not named Children of Húrin, Beren and Lúthien or the Fall of Gondolin would have to have most of it written by scriptwriters with only climaxes straight from the book.

I'm not opposing filming it, though. I think it would be wonderful if we got, for example, a 2D-animation of Ainulindalë in the spirit of Disney's Fantasies (in the spirit, not done by Disney) or someone who really gets what he's doing to do B&L (so it doesn't look like just another fantasy romance story) or SoH (so it is a proper tragedy)

Reading through the comments in that TOR article makes me cringe a little. The story is in the books, they say. No, it's not. The war between Rohan and Dunlendings is two pages in the Appendices. What if I want to know more about it? What about the dragon Scatha fighting the ancestors of Rohirrim? The War between Angmar and Arnor? Easterlings and Gondor? The book and The Lost Tales give a history lesson, but I want a story.

 

Having not read The Hobbit since about 1998 and only seen the LOTR movies, I am curious as to why Gandalf is a big fan of running away from enemies given he clearly has the power to defeat them.

We see him blast all the Goblins with magic in AUJ and slay the Goblin King pretty easily, we see that he has the power to destroy the Balrog despite it being far larger than him (and if it is a Maia like him and therefore uber powerful, how come Gandalf can't take out Smaug on his own? A Dragon surely is less powerful than a Balrog), we see he can summon Eagles and make fire-pinecones yet when a group of Orcs come along he says run away? Why not just pwn them with magic?

Heck why didn't Gandalf & Radagast both stand ground and collectively pwn them?

I guess it's an easy solution just like Eagles flying the heroes to anywhere they want to go, but it does seem strange.

 

I believe it's been already said in this thread: Gandalf's mission in Middle-earth isn't to solve problems for its inhabitants. Yes, he has the power to do it, but that doesn't mean he should be the instant "deus ex machina" solution. The wizards were sent to Middle-earth in order to inspire Men and give them hope and courage to fight their own battles. But the two Blue wizards were lost in the East, Radagast became too interested in wildlife, and Saruman became a power-mongering wannabe Dark Lord. So it was down to Gandalf to actually do the job for the rest of them. He only intervenes when there's no other option, and only with the minimum necessary force.

 

Odd that he wants to help the good guys but will only aid them when they're on the verge of all being killed. If he wants to stop them dying he might as well just take out the baddies himself.

What if Frodo had lost the Ring and Sauron regained it? Would Gandalf have to fight Saruon himself to stop him destroying everyone?

 

Gandalf certainly has his own rules which he follows, but I'm sure that in a what-if situation where Sauron got the ring he would have gone all-out, like he went with the balrog and the nazgûl when he fought them.

Something feels amiss, though, when I think about it. Fighting the Balrog for days from the Lovecraftian levels of Moria to its highest peak we can handwave, since that took his life as well, and he doesn't have that many of those. But what about when he fought the nine nazgûl on Weathertop?

Perhaps this quote explains it: "I have written Gandalf is here in signs that all can read from Rivendell to the mouths of Anduin", he says when making a fire. During the Hobbit he's not that afraid that Sauron or Saruman finds his location, but still he doesn't want to give himself away when not absolutely necessary.

 

Yeah, one of the things that I found humorous in AUJ was that Gandalf basically had two things he could do: blast everyone in the vicinity with magic or bellow "RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!"

 

Part of the reality is that Gandalf evolved as a character through the saga as well.
The guy who can only toss flaming pine cones is not the same one who could go toe to toe with a freaking Balrog for days on end.

Even given the rule about truly taking over only when necessary wouldn't stop him from climbing down and wiping the floor with the orcs once the company was surrounded.