Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.14 - Eminence - discussion thread

He'd be way too old to be in the sequels, unless Zabraks age very well, but then again Sidious was old. I really don't think they'd use him, but I wouldn't complain if they did

 

I have mixed feelings about this episode, but there's no question it's in a higher tier than the Onderon and Colonel Gascon arcs.

It seems a little too convenient that Viszla (sp?) seemed to know before being told that the unconscious Darth Maul and Savage Opress were enemies of the Jedi and that they wouldn't be a hostile threat to the Death Watch once conscious again. Like many in this thread, I thought the ease with which the Black Sun and the Hutt gang were defeated made it feel like many less formidable characters than the Maul/Opress/Viszla could have done the same. That one new alien species looks freaking awesome, but their scene was the most bizarre of all. The team of bad guys showed up and they were just like, well, you're powerful so we're going with you. So why weren't they already with the Republic or the CIS if they were going to go along with the first force they thought could defeat them?

That said, there's a lot I love about this episode. The break-neck pacing is something I'm a huge fan of and always makes me think of the pulp serials Star Wars was originally largely based on (which I'm also a big fan of). The myriad locations we visit are great, going from to planet to planet to planet is a blast, and even though the OT doesn't do so as quickly TCW episodes that do that always get a certain OT feel from it for me for some reason. There are automatic points for being an entirely bad guy based episode.

My absolute favorite thing about the episode is the portrayal of my favorite TCW OC, Savage Opress, which was the best perhaps since Monster. There were moments that showed how much of a monster he really is throughout the whole episode with at least one in each third of the episode. I LOVE when he first stands up and you see how much bigger he is than a properly proportioned Darth Maul and his head hits the light and it rocks back and forth. He kills Black Sun security with his bare hands and slams him on the table. Holy crap, he actually ROARS...LIKE A MONSTER. I've complained a lot about his voice sounding like Bizarro from Superman: TAS instead of a monster, so that beastly growl was a real treat for me. That's exactly what I want from this character. He beats Embo's ass with pure brute strength. Of course he could dominate him easily with the Force and his lightsaber, but why bother when he can just SMASH. I love the way he was used in this episode.

 

The Getter Robo Manga

 

I believe that as you watch the remaining episodes, you will discover a more nuanced, subtle, and multi-faceted character development of Maul and Savage. In TPM, it seemed as though Maul was nothing more than a brute force to Sidious' plotting - sorta like the muscle thugs to the mafia's Don. This wouldn't make sense as how could the Sith line continue if there was no succeeding intelligence. But now that we see how much more intelligent Maul actually is, it gives a much broader persective of his character.
Savage, meanwhile, showed signs of greater intelligence (more than brute force) until he was morphed by Talzin. Now he has become that brute force that Maul seemed to be in TPM. Has Savage allowed his brutish nature to overcome him, or is that the effects of the Talzin magic?
Maul states that he and Savage are the true Lords of the Sith, but one must wonder if Savage would be capable of taking the mantle from Maul (or Sidious for that matter) to continue the Sith line of increasing superiority. It may be that Maul has chosen Savage as his Sith apprentice more out of a feeling of brotherhood (which would not be true to the Sith agenda) or because Maul doesn't have a better choice for an apprentice at this point in time.

 

I also figured that Jabba initially objected to joining them when in holo form on Nal Hutta, because that would mean the Sith Bros. would potentially attack the hutts who were actually there, and possibly would kill one or all of them, leaving whatever that hutt owned to be free for the taking. Plus it sort of goes with Jabba calling Boushh's bluff in ROTJ, Jabba likes to say "no" until the other party really shows that they are serious.

 

I heard ... something! As a longtime birder, it sounded to me like a white-crowned sparrow! So that's what her beskar'gam marks mean!

 

Forgot to mention this, but did anyone else notice how towards the end of the part on Nal Hutta one of the Death Watch tells the bad trio that all the Hutts escaped except for the one, but then on Tatooine they tell Jabba and the bespectacled Hutt at his side that they are the only ones left? If most of them escaped, why would they be the only two left? If it's a lie, wouldn't Jabba know it's a lie because the other Hutts could contact him after escaping?

Maybe the book makes it make sense?

 

The other two Hutts (Arok and Marlo) don't appear and aren't mentioned in the book.

 

So...is there anyway that's not a contradiction then?

 

Blasphemy I say!!!

Maul and Savage shall prevail..In this life or the next.

 

Vizsla's comment has nothing to do with the other Hutts, actually. He's referring to the palace guards, whom Death Watch and the Sith brothers just massacred. "You're the only ones left," as in "Your guards are gone. No one to stand between me and killing you. You're alone."

 

It's one of the Death Watch talking to Vizsla, not Vizsla talking, and the quote is "Sir, the Hutts have escaped, except one." He doesn't just say there's only one Hutt left which would leave open the possibility that all the others are dead as you suggest, he specifies all the others escaped. So the two on Tatooine are not the only ones left as Darth Maul says.

 

I'm kinda surprised Bo-Katan is so tall.



I think she's the the tallest star wars female in TCW so far.

 

Maybe Maul is just force chocking her again in that picture, lol.
But Miraj Scintel is slightly taller than her.

 

Miraj Scintel: 1.85 m (6.07 ft)
Bo-Katan: 1.8 m (5.91 ft)

 

Can those mere humanoids beat 2.13 metres?



Eminence was a great episode, definitely worthy of either an 8/10 or 9/10 score. I'm not particularly convinced by the criticism I see here of the episode's internal logic, though I agree that it was possibly paced a bit too fast. I wouldn't have minded losing one of the Onderon episodes if it meant giving the Maul/Savage/Vizsla partnership more screentime. Alternatively, an overexposure of previous story arcs might have been detrimental, so this could be a useful example of how to keep a story compact and effective.

 

Aayla Secura: 1.78 m
Latts Razzi: 1.79 m
Bo-Katan: 1.8 m
Asajj Ventress: 1.8 m
Sugi: 1.83 m
Miraj Scintel: 1.85 m
Daughter: 2.13 m

But the tallest has to go to Mother Talzin: 2.23 m!

 

I wonder in the 2.23 includes those flailing things that are a part of her robe.

 

Dunno, she does look pretty tall compared to the others in this pic:

 

Nah, Maul and Viszla are short, especially Maul.

 

I got to agree. They should do a size charge with several characters in TCW.