Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.15 - Shades of Reason - discussion thread

He wants to take over Death Watch legit. I fail to see the issue here.

 

He wanted to get his goonsquad bonded to him through honor really. Kill him outside of his terms and they would have all tuned on him at once. Maul obviously didn't give a **** about Honor of any kind

 

Yeaaaaah, Maul knows the intelligence network Sidious has, he had to know Sidious would find out about it that very day.

Seriously, Sidious would know about it mere minutes after Death Watch shows up. Once Savage, the guy with a million credit bounty on his head, shows up terrorizing the city streets, it's a cinch that Sidious would find out, and obviously where Savage goes Maul is not far behind.

Sidious knew what happened with Black Sun, the Pykes and the Hutts, too. So once Black Sun shows up, Sidious knows what's going down.

 

You know, it's hard for me to disagree with this statement, lol. Maul should never have been brought back; there was no point in doing so, and it would have served the series better (and indeed, Star Wars in general) if the show runners would have just created a new villain. Fan service is important to have from time to time, and yeah, it can be nice, but often it's just off putting.

I agree with pretty much everyone that that duel in this episode was awesome. It was choreographed well and I really enjoyed it; it was just awesome to look at. That's really the only thing I liked about the episode. Maul and Vizsla's plans were just overtly convoluted, the entire invasion and governmental transition was way too quick, and Satine's inefficiency as a leader was beyond absurd. Vizsla is a smart guy, so why did he put two crazy force users in the same cell, made of glass no less? And obviously, he had multiple opportunities to kill them both off quickly and effectively, yet he did not. He should have killed Savage in their staged duel, or he could have just executed both brothers in front of the city population.

 

Sure, he's not publicly sitting in power, but he and his brother have been running around with lightsabers and have been publicly paraded as criminals... We don't see much of the media in the GFFA but one assumes someone was taking a photo for the local news.

Running around the underworld telling everyone they were Sith is sure to attract attention from the intelligence community too.

That seems to contradict what Maul said about avoiding the attention of the Republic and Seperatists, though... I think you're probably right. Obsession is clouding his judgement. Or mine.

I still like to think he's manipulating everyone and has a trick up his sleeve....

 

It was more or less him taking advantage of their ways to his advantage rather then wanting a fair fight to me. I see it in fiction all the time like guys who get life debts who are complete dicks, like Tremayne

 

Pretty much all this. I feel like if Maul wanted to, he would of disposed of Vizsla faster and easily in that duel, we have to remember he didn't use the force at all. He dragged it out so the members of Death Watch there could see who was really the better warrior.

 

My take is that he intentionally refrained from using the Force in more overt ways, like telekinesis. But I think he used the Force in more involuntary ways, such as the instincts and reflexes that come with being Force-sensitive.

 

Well yeah, but I don't know who feasible it would be to "turn off" those elements as it were.

 

9/10

What's there to say? The action was great, the animation was great, the dialogue was great, the voice-acting was great; really, everything was great except for the pacing.

 

Agreed, I had that in my comment but decided to delete it for the sake of avoiding the "he could close himself off from the Force" argument.

 

I was so disappointed that those hideous stained glass windows of Satine weren't smashed during the Maul/Visla battle.

 

Yep. A lot of people don't see that Maul's just using the Mandos pretensions of "honor" to get the boss's seat. He never cared about the Mandalorians or their history, only enough to know how to get them on his side, using the remnants of their hunter-gatherer culture to do it. He doesn't care about his allies but understands them.

 

Spoiler

I thought about that myself. I have a feeling that this theory will factor in to why Sidious travels to Mandalore. It'd be interesting to see Palpatine orchestrate a cover-up of the Mandalore conspiracy so that the populace of the galaxy doesn't recognize the bigger picture of the war.

 

Spoiler

I think Sids is going to use the fall out from this against the Jedi to sow some distrust.

Hey guys, remember, we can't discuss future episodes in here. I know that's tough. I would love to have that chat with you fistofan1 in either the general thread of season 5 thread.

 

Ironically, I didn't think that was a spoiler until you edited it. :/

 

i cannot wait till next week when Obi Wan shows up,i wonder if he will bring Anakin with him ? i loved this weeks episode and i thought that the Maul/Visla duel should go down with the best lightsabre battles in the SW saga-it was terrific!! The crime syndicats reminded me of the five families in the Godfather saga,also is it next week that we shall see Darth Sidious in action or is that something for the future ? I would love to see a Maul/Dooku smackdown.

 

This, I feel, is key to understanding Maul's motivations for opting not to use the Force during his "honor match" with Vizsla.

While watching the episode, it was my impression that Maul maintained a keen awareness of the Mandalorians witnessing the bout - swaying them to his side was the point of the entire afair, after all - and that the use of any "unfair" advantage would potentially be held against Maul by the very group he was trying to win over. To be honest, there's really no other rational explanation that I can think of for not using every advantage at one's disposal in the middle of a fight to the death (though to be fair, the fact that Maul didn't employ his gift for telekenesis doesn't necessarily preclude his use of other, unseen techniques, such as the use of the Force in maintaining his stamina). The only point I noticed Maul utilizing the Force was in calling the lightsaber to his hand for the killing blow, by which time, the contest had already been decided.

 

I think Sidious should find him right after his sanity was restored.

 

Excelent episode despite the fast pace!.

The fight between Vizla and Maul is arguably the best of the series.

Vizla surprised me a lot giving Maul that good of a match. Maul was gold when he challanged Vizla, he played it to perfection all theatrical and what not. Mauls character is getting better and better by the episode..At this pace they might have to think of something to let him live on " again".

Savage was a monster, like always..I seriously think he only follows Maul because a brotherly sentiment or something along those lines...It's definetly not him just wanting to train and get better. He's way too powerfull to just serve as a body guard / muscle. Which leads to me to believe the only reason these guys work together is because they both care for each other. I think this gives both depth and something different from a common Sith.

9/10

 

i honestly think that the arrival of maul in tcw totally killed savage's character... the writers are buffing up maul at the expense of savage, who i think had a lot of potential when he first came. now he's a total doofus, suggesting the dumbest ideas to maul.

and Maul should hang Viszla's head in his mandalorian office or something...

Spot on, sir.

 

I just watched this episode, and I honestly didn't expect anything to happen that did. That Maul vs. Vizsla duel... Wow that was great! One of the best duels I've seen in TCW yet! I thought Maul would own him straight away, but obviously not, because Vizsla was one tough dude. I really didn't expect him to die, but he went out with an amazing scene. I expected more to happen in this episode though, because when they said they were forming an army, I expecting a huge rampage across the whole city, not just some guys killing a few guards at a docking bay, but the story was still great. I give this episode an 8.5/10, mostly because of that duel, so 'Revival' still stands as my favourite episode so far this season.

 

Such a great episode. I was shocked at what happened to Vizsla..