PT George Lucas "Anakin would beat Palpatine" Quote in Making Of Revenge of the Sith?

Hey friends,

I have been having a debate elsewhere regarding Anakin v. Palpatine. My opponent has quoted Wookieepedia where George Lucas apparently suggests Anakin could (would?) beat Palpatine if he had not been injured.

I want to see the context to understand if he means PRECISELY at the time of Mustafar, or if he means "down the line Anakin could potentially have taken down Palpatine".

Can anyone help me find the timestamp in the documentary? Preferably as it appears on Youtube so I can use it as easily-accessible evidence.

I have checked through the documentary and I cannot myself find it so far. I am still looking, but I'd be most obliged if anyone could help me.

The quote he took from Wookieepedia, by the way, reads thus:

In the The Making of Star Wars Revenge of the Sith, George Lucas, the creator and ultimate authority regarding the Star Wars universe, responded to the question of whether Mace Windu brought a weak group of Jedi with him for the confrontation with Palpatine by replying that "one would have to be either Windu or Yoda to compete with Palpatine," and that if Anakin had suffered none of his injuries, he could have beaten the Emperor.

 

I agree with that statement.

 

Uhm... Anakin did beat the Emperor. Remember?

 

Obviously. But the quote implies if he had not been injured. So we are not talking about Darth Vader body slamming Palpatine into the reactor.

I still haven't found the quote yet.

 

The implication as I remember it is "down the line."

 

That seems the most reasonable interpretation to me as well. Anakin was still growing stronger (as he said to Dooku in regards to his powers doubling) while Palpatine himself said "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us." So I think this is likely what Lucas meant.

 

Yes, Anakin could have beat him

 

I find it odd that most people associate a character's strength with the Force with lightsaber skills. As if that is all that matters.

 

The Making of ROTS is a book, not a documentary.

 

At the time of Episode 3, I don't think Anakin was strong enough to defeat Sidious. I mean come on, let's be real here and actually think about how strong Darth Sidious really is?

 

Anakin kills Palpatine in the alternate ending to the ROTS video game, but I don't know if he would really be able to do it that easily.

 

How do you know? Granted, Anakin's control of his emotions was very shaky. But if he had them under control . . . who is to say that he could have never defeated Palpatine?

 

I think he meant a few years down the line. There's no way Anakin would take Palpatine during ROTS if he couldn't even defeat Obi-Wan. Darth Sidious is the greatest Sith Lord in history, so IMO Anakin stands no chance. Even if he didn't get injured and rely on cybernetics, he'd still have struggled to best Palpatine. The recent TCW cartoon episode shows just how powerful Palpatine is. Don't forget, Obi-Wan + Anakin struggled with Savage on his own, yet Palpatine took out his Sith Lord brother Maul and Savage together whilst laughing the entire time. Palpatine was toying with them, whilst everyone else who's fought Savage and Maul struggled (Ventress, Obi-Wan, Jedi Masters Savage slain etc...)

 

I may read through the ROTS Making Of book just to search for this. Otherwise my impression was that Anakin was not quite there but "...will be more powerful than either of us..." means it was pretty close. The ROTS making Of book doe smake the point that Windu could not take Palps and was fooled the entire time in order to be the final action of Anakin's turn.

 

Say what? Lucas has said that Mace overpowered Palpatine, and that Palpatine was trying to destroy Mace. Not to mention that Anakin had already turned by that point in the original conception of the scene.

"You need to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor." - Lucas

 

It is quite clear that the film is made to be more ambiguous so fans would debate it. Otherwise Palpatine throws the fight so Anakin comes in and "saves" him.

 

One of my quibbles with the SW movies is the "predestination thing", that (for me) somewhat clouds the fanboy fun of speculating about who might beat who, etc. I guess one way to look at the discussion above is, barring sheer luck, who would have the skill/power/Force-aligned abilities to go toe to toe with the Emperor. On that basis, I guess Lucas is suggesting it is Mace or Yoda, and that Anakin had that potential too. EXCEPT we all know that in the SW universe as Lucas has constructed it, ONLY Anakin could best the Emperor, and in fact he could best the Emperor even if he wasn't capable (at that point in his life ) of besting LUKE at that point.

I also think we should recall that it isn't ONLY Force-power levels that determine the victor. When Obi-Wan confronts Anakin on Mustafar, I am not sure who is the more powerful, but you can make a case that Anakin's arrogance leads to his undoing, so clearly, other elements can influence outcomes as well.

 

That may be what some fans believe, but it doesn't seem to be consistent with what Lucas has said about the scene. It also doesn't account for Mace's kick, which doesn't appear to have been planned by Palpatine, and doesn't explain the fact that in the scene as originally written Anakin had already turned so there was no need to put on a false show for him.

 

It is quite clear that the film is made to be more ambiguous so fans would debate it. Otherwise Palpatine throws the fight so Anakin comes in and "saves" him.

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if that is the case then why did Lucas state in the commentary that Mace legit beat Palpatine?

why not say "you know what, I'll let the fans debate this out a bit on that huge JC forum" ?

what is clear is Mace kicked Sidious in the face, seen on screen, clear as crystal

 

I am not sure how unclear I am being. At some point I'll be a tad less lazy and look it up and give you the exact words. But the Making Of book literally says Windu was duped the whole time.

 

fair enough

if Rinzler said that, i'm sure he did, I have the book myself

but the main man himself said Sidious was beaten by Mace,

 

By ROTS, Anakin managed to take down Dooku, who had defeated Obi-Wan in both AOTC and ROTS and who had given Yoda some trouble in AOTC. Actually, Palpatine also gave Yoda some trouble in ROTS.

I believe the only thing that would have kept Anakin from defeating Palpatine in ROTS was probably his lack of emotional control.

 

As far as I'm concerned Anakin won against Dooku by fighting dirty.

Why do I have the feeling that the reference to Palpatine "duping" Mace was all about "I'm too weak" and not about the lightsaber combat at all?

 

In a fight with a Sith, there is no such thing as fighting dirty.

 

I agree with those who have already said that Lucas meant at some point in the future. Just like Palpatine likely could not have bested Plagueis initially, he bided his time and then overcame him. Anakin would have eventually defeated Palpatine.