Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.16 - Lawless - discussion thread

Satine's looking awfully good. Maybe a cell did good for her?

Dreading how rushed this is going to be. And contrary to Seerow, I believe there isn't such a thing as a "good" rushed episode. If it's rushed, it's generally shallow. If this is really going to be the last look we ever get at Mandalore (my assumption!) I think they should have spent much more time on this.

 

I expect we'll be back to Mandalore for an arc where:

Spoiler: Spoilers: My thoughts on this episode's aftermath

Bo-Katan and the Republic repulse Death Watch and she becomes the new Mandalore. After Maul's death I don't expect the planet to suddenly become stable.

 

JackG I'd definitely love to see Katee Sackhoff again, I hope she survives this episode.

I don't know - I almost get the feeling that this was the emergency wrap-up if the show only lasted five seasons (remember, they make these 1-2 years in advance). To me, it feels like it's supposed to mark an end to the Mandalore plotline, and could easily mark the end of the Maul plotline too (though I don't think it will).

It just feels like it's in such a rush to tie everything together.

 

Filoni said the Maul/ Vizla fight was the best fight scene they have ever done...Until the next one

I fully expect to see the best duel in the history of the show. yea I went that far..If this fight scene is not epic on all phases of the imagination, I will literaly flip the hell out.

 

Judging by the previews and the screenshots, this episode will definitely not disappoint.

 

I dunno what prevented them to do 4 part arc with this.Its rushed and they have 2 episode short season anyway.

 

This is a four-part arc: Revival, Eminence, Shades of Reason and The Lawless.

 

By the way, this is a four episode arc - don't forget Revival from the beginning of the season (though it is rather forgettable)

 

I am with Akash on this one. It will be rushed as this entire arc has been.

And it will be good, but I doubt it is gonna be the best of the series and beat episodes like "Carnage of Krell", "Liberty on Ryloth", "Massacre", "Bounty"...

 

I am so looking forward to this epic conclusion to what has been a pretty good arc.

I was thinking Matriarch Benezia personally.

"Apprentice, now it is YOUR turn to lead..."

 

Ninja-d.

 

This episode is going to be one of the greatest in the series. The last three episodes of this arc (Revival, Eminence, Shades of Reason) have featured the best animation, music, acting, and plot this show has seen. And how this episode ends.. well:

Spoiler

Sidious approves!

I think there's a difference between 'rushed' and 'fast pace' tbh. These episodes are far from rushed, because each episode accomplishes and builds onto each other. That is something that we did not see in Onderon Arc. In that arc, everything was slow and nothing was really accomplished in, for example, Front Runners that couldn't have been covered in the opening crawl. Then suddenly you have the rebels go from running around the streets with absolutely nothing to BAM, Steela's dead, Ahsoka is shot, the Rebels win, the king dies, Dooku and the CIS flees, the old king is back, everything is a happy ending. However, in this Shadow Conspiracy arc, everything that happens is actually meaningful and accomplishes something. Watching the two arcs, you would actually think the Onderon arc tried, and failed, to copy this arc in a sense. Nothing is drawn out in this, each episode leaves you wanting more of what you just saw instead of 'God, I hope the next episode can do better.'

 

KED12345 I agree there's a distinct difference between "rushed" and "fast paced". Unfortunately, these episodes fall into the rushed category. The Pykes should have actually had Maul go to the Coruscant underworld, rather than just appearing and being like "Sup Maul, we're here to blow stuff up for you, even though it doesn't affect Coruscant in the slightest."

The Hutt conflict could have been much more nuanced - after Nal Hutta, the Tatooine section felt VERY rushed.

The Takeover of Mandalore should have had a more in-depth appearance. The amount of time the people take to change their minds is just way too little. In fact, the Maul/Vizsla relationship was not given the amount of time it deserved. These two men are very different, and there could have been some really good character study going on here.

The next episode looks like it's going to be EVEN MORE rushed than the last two. This arc is huge storywise, given it's really been built up to since Season 2. And it feels like they've just churned it out and it's already gone. This should have been 5 episodes to give each character their spotlight. Bo-Katan should have received enough time with us that her betrayal had a real effect. We didn't even know she admired Vizsla really until his head was cut off and the animators gave us that horrified look.

Are these episodes good? Yes. Are they really good? "Shades of Reason" definitely is. Could these episodes have been so much more had they been given the proper time to play out? Oh yes.

 

I don't know how anyone can complain about this arc considering the one we just got out of
I'm looking forward to this.

 

That's gonna be Anakin V Dooku duel number 103742

 

Obi Wan looks cool in the Mandalorian armor. It's also nice to see the old spice freighter again. This should be an interesting episode.

 

They do feel rushed and I'm curious if the book Shadow Conspiracy felt as rushed...or if it went into more in-depth detail. Not that I want to know any SPOILERS from that book!!! I'm just curious of the pacing of it. Guess I'll have to read it later.

 

Regarding the Nal Hutta, and Tatooine section of Eminence, certainly it was rushed. But that doesn't take anything away from the episode. But really, do you want to listen to 10 minutes of Maul debate with the Hutts the merits and financial needs of his plans? Not really, nothing that couldn't have been cut out.

Regarding Mandalore, I think we can draw some real life parallels here with Satine and past presidents of the United States. It's amazing how fast in real life you can see public approval plummet over little things like "so and so declares Pepsi better than Coke", imagine how quickly approval ratings would drop if gangsters and foreign criminal syndicates started attacking Washington DC and our leader declared 'Stay calm! They're just thugs, we must remain peaceful and do something about it.. eventually.', I'd turn against him or her pretty quick in that case in an emergency situation. Plus, it's entirely possible that the people already held some contempt towards Satine and her rule since the onstart of the Clone Wars.

The rest of your points are completely valid, of course.

 

Darth Sidious happens.


That is all.

 

RIGHT????? TWO DAYS!!!!!!!

 

Someone on the Rebel Force Radio made a good point that the U.S. was ready to lash out very quickly after 9/11. That really changed my perspective on how quickly the citizens rallied to Death Watch.

 

Definitely looking forward to this... it's been quite a while since TCW made me say that. And I agree, there's a difference between fast-paced and rushed, and this really has the potential to be rushed, which is too bad. If it needed to be five episodes to tell the story (these four plus Revival), then so be it. We didn't need anywhere near that many episodes of The WAC & Gascon Show.

 

1 more day

 

I can't wait to see Kenobi and Maul wearing the same armor... and I'm not sure why.