ST Who's The Baddie?

Remember that we were told the ST will be based off an original idea from Lucas. You guys are discussing an EU book.

 

I remember one of the inital concepts of The Force Unleashed was that the main character was supposed to be a reincarnation of Plagueis.

Perhaps that idea made it into the ST in some form?

 

I doubt it, a general film audience would have no idea about any of that. They have to market this thing wide.

 

I know its weird, but I have always considered the PT era EU to be more valid than than post ROTJ EU based on the stuff I have read.... Not sure why I just do in my own head.

 

That pretty much sums it up and is the obvious reason EU will play little to no role in the ST: the casual fan.

Casual fan: How come Chewbacca wasn't in the new Star Wars movie? I loved that guy!

Disney: That character died in an extended universe novel so we have to respect it because it was published and some people read it.

Casual fan: huh? what?

 

As far as I'm concerned, the EU is it's own little thing. It doesn't effect the way I look at the films in the slightest.

 

Darth Plagueis in the ST would be very odd, this is far after his time...two trilogies after!

 

It would be odd because he is dead. Palpatine killed him in his sleep... Though according to the EU we know powerful Sith can somehow survived in the Force even if killed but no more recycling for Episode VII please. We need new ideas and so new threaths for the recovering new Jedi Order.

 

I am not saying it wouldn't work and I would be even curious to see what kind of result it could give but he is not exactly a new an unkown threat. A novel has been writted about him. We know what he is and what he could be. This is a bit of recycling a dead character though it can hardly be as worst as Darth Maul. It may be because I am a bit tired of all the born-again characters who suddenly turn out to be alive when supposed dead.

 

I wish I could like this 100 times

 

The only way I think Plagueis could factor into the ST would be if a Sith threat (a new one, not a re-hashed Vader or Palptine or Maul somehow magically brought back to life for the umpteenth time by having his torso re-attached with Duct tape, etc.) is somehow driven on by what Palpatine promises Anakin in Ep. 3, a "way to stop people from dying" (without actually referencing this moment). This would put said villain on a collision course with the galaxy because they are attempting to ascertain the full power of the Dark Side, etc.

Otherwise, I think it should be left with the PT and left at that.

 

Tenebrous could play a Nadd like role.

 

While the book on Plagueis may be EU, he was mentioned in ROTS first, they can easily retcon anything in the book if necessary.

Yea Sidious said he killed him, remember when Obi-Wan said Darth Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin Skywalker, things aren't always as they seem.

Plagueis could keep the ones he cared about from dying, don't you think he cared about himself? Not very Sith like to not care about yourself, the Sith are selfish, it's reasonable to think he learned how to save himself from dying before he learned how to save others.

A character that could keep people from dying coming back from the dead is a lot more believable than bringing back characters like Maul or Boba.

 

Like I said in other posts my $ is on a secret apptc of Palapatine. He seemed almost obsessed with passing on his knowledge. Beginning with Maul, Dooku, Anakin etc... Maul & Dooku where trained in secrecy & Anakin was forged into DV at the beginning of the empire. We know that The Emperor was a great mentor/trainer even to men as seen in his royal guard. I feel as time grew & knowing/sensing DV's lust for power he would secretly train another. It seems to be in his character. Why would he just stop? Especially if you take into account all the younglings in the jedi temple at its fall. Force sensitive children will still be born & he would have the pick of the litter if you will. He would have the $, resources to make it happen.

I truly hope with the galaxy firmly in his grip that Palpatine would abandon the rule of two & would have secretly begun building a new sith army/culture with the Jedi gone he would have no obstacles except for the rebellion. Imagine a new jedi order confronting a resurgent sith. You would have a new war to rival anything from the old republic, and plenty of material for 3+ films.

 

I don't think there is any reason for Palpatine to train others and teach them his powers.
Sure, before and during the Clone Wars he needed a lot of apprentices, because he was not the all-powerful Emperor.

During the Galactic Civil War? Not so much need of an apprentice besides Vader. He thinks he's alone. He doesn't know where Yoda is and hasn't seen him in like 30 years. He knows Obi-Wan is dead (but doesn't know about Force Ghosts).
All he knows for sure is that there is a boy, presumably trained only by Obi-Wan until he died, who is most likely training himself.

If the Emperor wants to keep the powers he already has, one way to do it is to not give his knowledge and powers to other potential adversaries.
Because he knows very well that Sith apprentices want to take their master's place, sooner or later.

You can have old villains be interesting too.
It's not too often we see a villain learning from his past mistakes and perfecting his methods.

Plagueis is completely unknown to the audience, apart from one line in RotS. 90% of the audience hasn't even read (or heard) about the Darth Plagueis book. Heck, most of them have probably already forgotten about him.
If it is Plagueis, then the writers should be smart enough to give him unique character traits, different from the book, and most of the audience won't know.

A random villain needs backstory, and lots of it. His motivation for being the villain must be explored and explained more deeply than "he is just bad".
With Plagueis we already have a backstory, in just a few sentences: He found ways to keep others from dieing, it is implied that he created Anakin (or because of him). And most importantly, he was Sidious' master. And everyone knows that Sidious is powerful and evil. Imagine how his master could be.

Giving us a random, not mentioned, villain would be such a killjoy, as that random villain must become a threat at least as menacing as Palpatine and Vader combined. Otherwise, it will just seem like a filler villain, just to justify there being a conflict to get the ST going.



Plagueis can fit nicely in an eventual Mortis storyline. It is known that the Whills have been mentioned in RotS. We know that Qui-Gon made his first appearance on Mortis - he found a way to cheat death. And he said that the Shaman of Whills (probably Father) taught him how to do it.
Plagueis? Well, if he could save others from death, it is pretty weird to assume that he didn't think of any protection for himself.

Someone posted an old interview with Mark Hamill where he said that Lucas' original intention with the ST was to have the important battles take place on another plain of existence.
Now, we know Lucas changes things from movie to movie, but he also has the habit of reusing older ideas (Mace Windu, midichlorians, Whills etc).

I believe that Plagueis would fit into the Mortis storyline, perhaps a cameo from Qui-Gon, as the ultimate battle takes place in the Netherworld of the Force. We could also meet Yoda, Obi-Wan or Anakin on Mortis, as they are Force Ghosts.

That way, we won't need any cloned Palpatines, no resurrected Darth Vader and no physical Plagueis.
Just one of them influencing a powerful Force-sensitive apprentice, who is doing their bidding in the material world.

 

That may be? I'm thinking that Palpatine being the greatest Sith ruler & having the keys to the galaxy for a few decades would want to re-establish the Sith empire.

He would in his mind abandon the rule of two setup up by Darth Bane. With the jedi gone wouldn't the greatest Sith want to restablish the greatness of their former empire? It would be in secret I'm sure, but why would he just be happy with having just his apptc. They defeated the jedi finally & he's going to keep the rule of two with no one to oppose him? I'm not sure how open Palpatine & Vader where about being Sith Lords in the galaxy, but I can see a secret Sith colony maybe even on korriban? What better way to show your power & claim victory over your enemies then reviving a once dead race? Palpatine's weakness was his overconfidence so he probably never felt power could be taken from him by Vader or a resurgent sith people, if he kept them in check.

We can speculate forever, as long as I see some great lightsaber battles I'll be happy.

 

Technically, Qui-Gon's first appearance would be in AOTC, even though he didn't literally appear. ( The ROTS novel creates a different impression, but according to the film commentary AOTC was the first time Yoda heard Qui-Gon. )

 

He could save others from death... but not himself.

 

But yet Plagieus doesn't have the buzz around him Boba and Maul have (read: merchandising) , and thus will probably remain in the ground. I would like to see his work on researching the Force appear somehow, though. He was on the verge of a massive breakthrough in the way we understand it.

 

That's what Sidious believes, doesn't make it true. The Sith don't seem like the type to share everything with one another, if you were a Sith would you teach your apprentice how to become more powerful than you?

 

That's true. Though we don't know exactly if "the Ones" (stupid name, considering that they are more than one) were Force apparitions or physical entities.
We're told that one is the embodiment of the Dark Side, one the embodiment of the Light Side and one is both. But they can change shape and they can teleport. So I guess they're more ghosts than actual people.
Still, the Mortis storyline remains vague, intentional or not.
What is 99% certain is that Qui-Gon was trained by the Shaman of the Whills and the first apparition of his Force Ghost is on Mortis, which just happens to be the home of these powerful...things who are the embodiment of the various aspects of the Force.

 

I was thinking it was more believable as far as the plot and story telling, not merchandising and money grabbing.

But yea if Plagueis doesn't appear, would be cool if a new Sith carries on his research.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing him if his traits were tweaked a little. That he was mentioned in the prequels would indeed be beneficial.

I hope Plagueis isn't really capable of cheating death and if he appears in the ST, only made Palps believe he killed him (could've swaped places with a clone or something). Because once you go down the path of reanimating characters, forever will it define your destiny. Seriously. Death is already close to being a joke in star wars because of the ghosts. Please, please, please no reanimations. If they started with it, you could never be sure whether a character is perma-death or just "on vacation". I read the X-Men, I know how bad it can become.

Plagueis could work on cheating death, yes, that's okay. Maybe the heroes try to stop him from doing such unholy things. But he should never succeed. Never ever ever. Never!

I disagree. This is typical Hollywood mentality. Everything must be bigger than before. Untrue. A story isn't better just because the big bad is capable of nuking a galaxy instead of a planet.
How to make a villain threatening 101: When he appears, there must be lethal danger for the protagonists. Occasionally someone must die. Vader and Palpatine were effective because you knew they were real business for the heroes whenever they appeared.

I don't think we'll see a netherworld. It was nice in TCW, but TCW is a show for kids. In an episode that kind of stuff could be too cheesy while again, taking away from death.