Full Series Poll: Clone Wars or Prequel Anakin

Lanter varies too much, his angry yell just annoys me to no end.
Probably prefer Hayden but both vary from great to awful.

To be fair to Lanter, he has a lot more material in which to vary, but to be fair to Hayden he had those love scenes to do.

 

Those were love scenes?

 

I think it is probably more accurate to say that that is how the artist who created those scenes thinks love is expressed. Is GL single?

 

That line is there, but "the boy" being referred is not entirely different from Darth Vader as the OT says he was, he was fairly similar to Darth Vader, which is the opposite of what the OT says. This was the main point of my previous post, yet you have no response to it.

So let me get this straight. I acknowledge Yoda's lines about Anakin in Ep. V and say the PT could have been written to include that as part of the story without excluding the other depictions of him...and your response is to accuse me of wanting the PT to ignore what Yoda said? You're making me question whether responding to you is worth the time and effort. Try responding to what I'm actually saying. It feels like you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and making loud noises to pretend you can't hear me at this point.

And man, you really are holding on tight to that "noble" thing. Apparently you missed it so here you again:

I've moved past using this point in my argument and asked at least three times for you to clarify what you think the big difference is there since you're so hung up on it. And still nothing. You're making me question whether responding to you is worth the time and effort. Try responding to what I'm actually saying. It feels like you're just sticking your fingers in your ears and making loud noises to pretend you can't hear me at this point.

Okay, so according to you, when it is said that Anakin was a Jedi Knight "the same as" Obi-Wan, you get to decide exactly what that meant and what it didn't mean, and people who disagree are objectively all wrong? In political terms, you sound like those people who call themselves "Constitutionalists" ignoring years of legitimate debate on nuanced issues to make believe their interpretation is somehow objectively the only viable one. We know what the Constitution says, we disagree on interpretation.

The OT says Anakin was a good man and when he became Darth Vader he became a completely different person. In the PT, the decision that turns Anakin into Darth Vader is not out of line with how Anakin was behaving the whole time anyway. This is a contradiction with the OT. If you want to pick up the debate there, I'll gladly keep it going, if you want to keep sticking your fingers in your ears and making noise to pretend you can't hear me and saying things that make it seem like you're not even reading my posts before responding, I'll ignore it.

 

I think he just got engaged to this pretty lady:

 

OT never said anything about Vader being totally different than Anakin. Actually anyone who watched the end of EP VI would not have such thoughts, even those lines Obi Wan said in EP IV mostly fit Vader.

A great pilot? Yes, we saw it in EP IV.

A cunning warrior? Yes, we saw in in EP V.

So basically you are accusing PT for not being accurate with something the OT never mentioned, actually contradicted with OT.

No, that's only Obi Wan's view and he was proved WRONG in the end of EP VI.

What? You mean Anakin should stay good for all time and suddenly get brainwashed by the Dark Side then it would make a good story? Even though OT clearly said there was so much anger in him and he was seduced by the Dark Side, which means he willing submit to the Dark Side?

 

Hayden hands down.

The one drawback of TWC is that the performance is too much of a remapping of Anakin's overall character. Its a blatant Han Solo-facation of Anakin.

 

And in PT Anakin was not a Jedi? OT never said Anakin was same type of person like Obi Wan.

If there was no desire of power in him, why would he choose the Dark Side? We can also see it from Vader's own words about he was indeed obsessed with the power of the Dark Side and used it to reply Luke.

Nowhere in OT ever said it. Actually the end showed it's just some nonsense Obi Wan made to push Luke kill him.

No, the end of EP IV clearly showed that's not the case at all. Also Yoda mentioned there was so much anger in Anakin.

EP I could have been a lot better, but it showed some of Anakin's traits well, he was slave, he wanted to become a hero and protect his loved ones, he was strongly afraid of losing his loved ones, which settled his downfall later.

Yes, his way is different than the Jedi, he wanted to protect his loved ones but the old Jedi way is let things go, and settled his downfall. Just like Yoda said in OT.

EP III showed he was in the center of the storm, in the great panic of losing his loved ones again, and was struggling with the conflict between the Jedi and his mentor Palpatine, in such panic, fear he made the wrong choice, and that's exactly what Obi Wan said about Vader.

Oh yeah Obi Wan's story again. Let's make it clear.

Obi Wan was lying to Luke in EP IV about his father, so this reduced his words' credit of that story, actually right after the story, he said about Vader was a young Jedi who betrayed the order and slaughtered people. And in the end of EP VI the fact clearly showed his view on Vader is WRONG. Beside the story, he talked about Vader, Yoda talked about Anakin had much anger.

And most importantly, Anakin himself was there in most of the OT, yes he became Vader, but he still had traits of Anakin in him. He was Anakin unless you want to deny this fact, which should be considered as more reliable source? The real man who once was Anakin Skywalker and still had traits of Anakin Skywalker, or Obi Wan's a few lines which part of it is a lie and later proved his view of both Anakin and Vader was wrong?

 

Good for him. Do I think the PT is crap, hell yeah, but that doesn't mean I have anything against him personally, I just think they were bad films is all

 

EP III is very good.

 

Slowpokeking I think our strong disagreement stems from our very different views of Obi-Wan's talk with Luke in Ep. VI. You seem to think that because Darth Vader turned away from the dark side at the very end, that makes everything Obi-Wan has said meaningless. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not trying to misconstrue your words. I disagree with that. He could have been wrong about Darth Vader never being able to turn away from the dark side, but that doesn't mean everything he said about Anakin was a lie. My interpretation was that he was wrong about that one thing but otherwise telling the truth (including in Ep. IV as amended by the Ep. VI conversation). You're right that if everything Obi-Wan said about Anakin to Luke is a lie and all the bad things Yoda says are the only truths, the PT would be better matched with the OT (that actually fits the point I was making), but I disagree with that premise. The only "lie" Obi-Wan explains as merely a different "point of view" in Ep. VI is that Anakin was killed by Darth Vader, the rest of his story remains basically the same as in Ep. IV, and I don't think being wrong about him turning away from the dark side invalidates his memories of his friend.

 

Dark Side does not brainwash people and totally reshape their personality, at least it's not the usual case. It expand the darkness people already have in their heart to maximum. Especially OT clearly said Vader joined the Dark Side willingly, so his flaw was already there.

I'm saying Obi Wan's story is not reliable yes, but that's not because Anakin became Vader, I'm saying it's reliable because he told a lie to Luke at that time. I'm also not saying he was saying nothing but a lie, but he was telling Luke what he thought about Anakin, including the lie was what he understand about Anakin and Vader. However in the end of OT, we see his view of Anakin being gone and Vader is pure evil is wrong, he didn't understand Anakin well enough, even Luke understand his father better than him. So this, plus the lie he told Luke before, greatly decreased his credibility of what he said about Anakin's character.

Also it's not like Anakin is dead in OT, we should look at Anakin himself, and listen to other lines about him. Just like we should look at the person himself to understand him rather than just listen to someone else's tale, especially someone who lied about this topic and didn't understand the person good enough.

 

TCW doesn't even rate to me, because I can't stand what it is doing to the Clone Wars and I don't understand how people can't see the good man Obi-Wan described in ANH in the PT.

 

Slowpokeking I don't think Anakin should have had to be brainwashed in the PT or had absolute zero dark side traits before his full turn to the dark side, but my issue is that GL went too much in the opposite direction, giving dark side traits too strong and too prevalent to make it seem like he fully embraced being a Jedi Knight in the first place. The OT says Luke's dad had some dark side traits but still ultimately had to be seduced by it. The PT makes it seem like the dark side was a major part of him the whole time and he just experienced a long, natural, and not-very-steep downward slope to fully embracing it. That doesn't require any seduction. There's a difference there.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on Obi-Wan. Even though he was wrong about Darth Vader turning away from the dark side, I don't think that invalidates all the memories he shared with Luke about his old friend. Even though it's a bit hokey out-of-universe, the whole Ep. IV "lie" being explained as just another "point of view" in Ep. VI never bothered me, maybe just because I've been an OT fan from a very, very young age. But I respect that you're at least making a consistent point, you're not saying everything Obi-Wan said about Anakin was true and the PT shows it, you're saying what Obi-Wan said wasn't true so it didn't need to be shown.

On your last point, I accept it but I don't think it has the implications you seem to think it does. When Darth Vader talks about Anakin Skywalker, he only reinforces everything Obi-Wan has said: that name no longer has meaning (it was a different person) and it's too late to ever turn away from the dark side. If you mean what Darth Vader says about his then-current self, it's after the transformation from Anakin to Vader, so it doesn't apply to Anakin (from the OT view).

 

PT showed Anakin's good traits, he wanted to protect his loved ones, he was brave and a great pilot, the problem is just PT focus on his most unstable and struggling time. If you read the novel of EP III(I quoted a few lines in this thread) you will see the movie already made Anakin a "good man who fall to the Dark Side because of his flaw".

Obi Wan thought that's his point of view, and his view was proved wrong in the end, so we have to take away his credit and look at Vader seriously to see about Anakin.

That means Vader didn't want to be mentioned of Anakin again, not he is totally different than Anakin. At the same time the good of him was having conflict in his mind. And Vader admitted Luke was right about him in the end.

 

When I say the PT I'm not including the novelizations, and if the novelizations don't have the same problems the films have, that's good for the novels, but doesn't fix the problems with the films. I don't think being brave and a great pilot makes one a "good man," and Anakin's obsession with protecting his loved ones actually proves my point that he didn't fully embrace being a Jedi Knight and following the Jedi way. Having that as an issue to deal with that leads to questionable actions like in Brain Invaders or the S4 slaver arc is one thing, having it motivate wanton slaughter like in the PT is another.

 

I'm saying the novel Anakin was much darker.

OT never said anything about Anakin was a "good man", a cunning warrior, a great pilot, a good friend. And these could be lie or misunderstanding of Obi Wan.

Of course he didn't fully embrace being a Jedi Knight, otherwise why would he embrace the Dark Side? Jedi should have no anger and "there was so much anger in him". You are still accusing PT for not being accurate for something the OT never give any hint.

 

Actually, in Ep. VI Obi-Wan does use the term "good man" to describe Anakin, so even if you want to contend he was wrong or lying, there's still at least a "hint."

 

And I don't see before corruption, PT Anakin was a evil person, sure he has many flaws but overall he's not a bad guy.

 

The question isn't whether he always evil, but whether he was ever good.

 

TCW Anakin is better, PT Anakin is too much in love.

 

Exactly.

 

You can't be serious, it's really easy for people not to see the "good man" Anakin was in the PT.