Lit A/V Clone Wars Continuity Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

I hate the Dark Side clouds everything excuse. Seriously some basic logic and detective skills could crack most of these plots wide open. Palps has to be doing more then clouding the Force, he really needs to be poisoning the water supply or something. I mean seriously these writers are utterely incapable of making the bad guys look good without making the good guys look dumb.

 

My problem is I flatly refuse to accept that Anakin Skywalker was knighted so early and had a Padawan, because it breaks everything I knew about the Clone Wars. Ahsoka Tano is a retroactive addition, which is a no-no to me. The introduction to the RotS novelization makes the Republic always winning seem laughable. The Tantive IV being retconned because of the episode Supply Lines, many factions of the CIS being neutral, and the numerous encounters between Anakin and Dooku between AotC and RotS directly contradict RotS, which make it impossible for me to take TCW seriously. Condensing the majority of the multimedia project into mere weeks or months, when it covered three years, is absurd. We were told the multimedia project was the story of the Clone Wars, only to latter be told TCW and all of its sweeping changes also happened.

 

Don't forget the many battles of Grievous and Obi-Wan. That is getting on my nerves as well. Also Anakin and Obi-Wan have not fought Grievous's guards until ROTS. The original 02-05 stuff is class A stuff. The comics are superb. I'm going through the newer stuff to make sense of it and while I can suspend my disbelief I can't suspend my disbelief entirely. I go in wanting to have fun and while I do I can't help but notice contradictions. Ashoka should have been a fellow Jedi Knight. If Anakin was knighted earlier that would make him impatient after 2 years.

 

I was just going with major things that directly contradicted RotS, but I am aware of the many battles between Obi-Wan and Grievous, and Anakin and Obi-Wan having not fought magnaguards until RotS. I actually like the idea of Anakin being knighted earlier, but I would much rather look to the old timeline from many of the multimedia project works for my timeline, since it was the only timeline there was for far too long for me to accept a radical restructuring.

 

In the ROTS novelization in the scene where Mace is telling Obi-Wan why he should fight Grievous, that conversation to me implied that those two have not met until ROTS. Obi-Wan is their master weapon to end Grievous once and forever. Not a direct contradiction but the several fights in TCW lessen the impact of that conversation. For Anakin being knighted I can see both ways. Being knighted earlier, gets impatient earlier, being knighted later, gets bigger ego and expects to be a Master etc. Yeah the old stuff being thrown into a 6 month window? That's insane. A year or year and a half maybe.

 

Huh, I was just checking out the preview slide show on the Official Site and I noticed that they added a new Ackbar model. Strange that they were upgrading him for this episode, unless that is a hint that the Mon Cal will appear next season.

--Adm. Nick

 

They might have intended for him to sit on the tribunal.

 

Ackbar the Lawyer

 

Okay, I know I should have included Obi-Wan and Grievous, but I was going with things that were as apparent in RotS as they were in the novelization, beside the introduction to the novelization, though the opening crawl implied many of the same things.

I wouldn't be surprised if George said this somewhere along the way.

 

Most of that is not continuity errors.

Anakin was ready to be knighted in Episode II (and frankly should have been soon after Geonosis). The only reason he wasn't was because authors didn't know if he would be by Episode III or not.

With Ahsoka... so now you know more about the Clone Wars. How can new character "break everything you knew about the Clone Wars"?? The war is bigger than just Anakin and Obi-wan.

There are many fronts to a galactic war, the Republic could be losing on those we don't see. (Also, George Washington hardly won a single battle, yet he won the war.) And the CIS was clearly on the verge of losing by the start of ROTS, they were easily beaten after Dooku's death, his capture of Palpatine was like a desperate last act of defiance.

Anakin hasn't seen Dooku in a while, and his power probably has doubled between then and Episode III.

Factions in the CIS want to appear to be neutral, being deceitful.

 

Here's the thing, Zeta.

I understand your desire to ignore the show entirely. The old multimedia project formed a plenty cohesive narrative on its own without interference from a new project. It was indeed intended to be complete up until after Ep III. Just as many feel the OT is all there should be to Star Wars. That is fine. I can even sympathize with that frustration if you do not like the new material. I too look forward to the day when we no longer need to dread retcon after retcon and can make sense of this all as best as possible. For you, ignoring TCW entirely seems to have achieved that purpose. Again, that is fine.

My problem mostly stems from the fact that you continually talk almost like those of us who feel we're able to make sense of the timeline (and let's not even talk of those who prefer the show) have no right to do so. You've been vocally clear on your stance of ignoring TCW for at least a year now. But that is ultimately your personal preference. One which you have every right too. But very often you come here only to repeat yourself. Only to make the same point over and over again, stating that you personally intend to ignore the show (and maybe sometimes why). I will acknowledge that you have a right to your opinion, and even the freedom to speak it (I'm certainly not saying that our threads should be happy go lucky mindless love with no serious critique), but it does sometimes grow tiring to see you beat the same point in this thread over and over again almost verbatim. You say this episode crossed the line today and now made you no longer willing to accept TCW, but I assumed that this was your position long before this episode. At least a year ago if not more.

I know some support your ideal of the show being entirely non-canon. If you're here just to build up support for that ideal than I suppose at least your posts have a bit of a purpose, otherwise I fail to see why you must beat the same point into the rest of us over and over again, and honestly why you let yourself be so continually upset about this. This thread is for discussing continuity problems, yes, but it can also be for solutions. Many times over the last 5 years we have come up with fun and clever solutions to these issues. I'm not asking you to necessarily accept those, but you must realize that there are some of us who can suspend our disbelief enough to do so. There is nothing wrong with that. This is a fictional universe. Facts are somewhat of a relative thing. The future is in motion. The meanings of text can be contextual and interpreted multiple ways. A million different ideas and stories can fit "between the lines" of two seemingly unrelated sentences, seeking to bring them together. This kind of creativity has kept the franchise and the EU itself alive for 30+ years, and it will probably continue to do so if we are fortunate.

I'll admit, Ep VII could make this a whole different story, but it is very unlikely we'll have to do so with all TCW era material when all is said and done with the show.

 

You people never seem to understand me, the timeline of the Clone Wars to me is the one from the multimedia project works, such as from the front of Republic Commando: Hard Contact. Well, ideally one from later in the multimedia project, but Hard Contact is the only book I have that has the old "Clone Wars Timeline."

You think I don't know that the war was bigger than Kenobi and Skywalker? Of course I know that, my problem with Ahsoka Tano is why didn't the Padawan of the Chosen One exist during the multimedia project instead of years later? I simply don't believe Anakin ever had a Padawan, especially based on RotS.

My point with Anakin and Dooku's exchange is clearly a reference to Geonosis, and I refuse to see it as anything else.

The way I see it, what TCW is doing is rewriting history.

 

Then why are Anakin and Obi-Wan featured so much in the show? I want to see more diversity in the show not Anakin and Obi-Wan brought in for every single thing unless we are supposed to believe that those two were at every single battle of the war.

 

So the problem is with you and your perspective, not with the show.

My point is that the war is still much bigger than what we see in the show.

 

Eh if he doesn't wanna believe he doesn't have to believe

 

In that instance it feels like the series is contradicting ROTS every time we see Anakin and Dooku face off imo.

 

And that's fine. Just saying that's Zeta's opinion, Zeta's point of view. Not fact. Just because some people can never see Anakin ever having a padawan doesn't mean that the show is therefore horrible.

As I just said above... Anakin and Dooky haven't met in a long time now. And Anakin probably still feels like his power has doubled since the last time they met. This is not a contradiction.

 

Yeah, I see things from an old perspective, they told me the multimedia project was what happened, and I believed them. Turns out they lied to me by later saying numerous contradictory things also happened. What am I supposed to do, change how I view the Clone Wars based on a show that simply doesn't fit with RotS?

 

No he diden't win the war, the bloody French did.

 

Washington was the Luckiest General ever. If ever you can believe in Divine Intervention protecting someone and guiding them to victory it was Washington.

 

Okay, let me put it this way, I saw RotS in theaters, back when Anakin and Dooku's exchange was clearly a reference to Geonosis, and the CR70 corvette in RotS was the Tantive IV. I still see these things the same way I did when I first saw RotS, so they simply will not change on the word of a show that came out years after the fact.

 

Hardly. I don't expect you to change your opinion at all on the matter. You've made your stance clear. You've reasoned why. I disagree with it personally, but that's not my beef. Again, my problem is that you continually come here to vent the same opinion in the thread over and over again and seem to do little more than complain about something that is likely not going to change. You have every right to be a fan, and to disregard TCW's canocity in your own personal views.

But why repeat it as much as you do? What do you seek to do? Is it venting, or do you seek to change consensus of the viewers here? I guess it could be argued that my arguments are equally pointless and off topic as this is a web forum and your posts seem to follow the rules, but maybe I'm just a little baffled by this.

 

Essentially, yes, at least, if you're going to talk about it.

The EU is continually telling you to change how you view certain events based on the revelation of new data, whether that is blatantly contradictory to past events or not. Outbound Flight advanced the claim that Palpatine established the Empire in order to stop the Yuuzhan Vong for kriff's sake. Greedo shot first, changing everything about Han Solo's OT characterization from that moment forward.

The Star Wars universe is a living universe, and so long as it continues to be so the primary interpretation of the narrative is continually in flux. If you wish to ignore those fluctuations go ahead, plenty of people disregard large portions of the EU or even it in its entirety, however, once you do that you're not dwelling in the same living universe as the rest of us. At that point you really don't have much to add to the conversation.

The issue with continuity snafus is not that they alter the timeline in minor and/or not-so-minor ways, but that they damage the conherency of the overall universe as whole be requiring convoluted retcons, or by outright invalidating certani existing material, which then weighs against whatever they add.

For example, the entire New Mandalorian plotline introduces a great deal of confusion and muddling of terminology and heritage into a vast number of other works, largely through devaluing the clarity of all that has traditionally been associated with the 'Mandalorian' concept. That robs that concept of impact across the board and makes just talking about one of the more significant cultures in the universe cumbersome. The benefits of using Mandalorians in TCW: small, mostly the presence of some familliar visual effects on the Death Watch characters.

To compare that with the current Bariss issue. The cost is well, the circumstances of Bariss' death are now changed. A handful of comic panels have been vanished into the realm of Infinities. That's a shame for that comic, but since everyone familliar with Bariss' existence was already under the operating assumption that she was killed during Order 66 anyway the specific visual evidence thereof was of limited value. The advantages of using Bariss in the recently concluded plot arc: having Ahsoka be betrayed by someone previously shown in the series not only as a viruous Jedi, but as Ahsoka's friend, a person she trusted personally. When Ahsoka turned to Bariss before the treachery was revealed it made perfect sense, that was the exact person we would have expected Ahsoka to turn to in those circumstances.

The alternative was what? Introduce a completely new character at this point to play that role? That would have felt extremely forced. TCW has been (wisely in my view) very cautious about introducing new Jedi, and most of the existing cast, basically the Council plus Aayla, are accounted for in ROTS. Aside from Bariss the only character I can think of who was even available to play the role was Tera Sinube. Bariss, due to the convergence in age and status with Ahsoka, was a far better choice than he would have been.

 

Well yes certainly the changes to Mandalore were a great deal more annoying. I mean seriously a bastion of diversity and tolerance as long as you can fight being turned so everyone is now blonde haired and blue eyed is annoying. Not like the EU was suffering from a lack of white people in the first place.

As for protection against the Vong. I am sure that was probably on Palpatine's mind. I mean it would really suck to build your empire by sneaking into government and corrupting it and then an alien armada rolls in and screws it all up. But a Primary reason obviously not.

 

The Hand of Thrawn books go one further and pretty much have the whole Empire as all part of Thrawn's master plan so again it's just a matter of perspective