Full Series The Clone Wars - 5.20 - The Wrong Jedi (Season Finale) - discussion thread

How the hell is it not? The Jedi have been fighting wars with the dark side and it's agents from the get-go:

Dark Jedi split from the order and attacked the Republic and Jedi, the Jedi defended themselves and the Republic.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness

Sith attacked the Republic/Jedi for the first time. The Jedi didn't sit on their collective asses and let Coruscant burn.....they FOUGHT BACK.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Hyperspace_War

Sith attack again

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Sith_War

and again...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Civil_War

and again...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Galactic_War

My Force senses are picking up a pattern...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Great_Galactic_War

But what could It be...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/New_Sith_Wars

So what do people expect the Jedi to do, when they find out the CIS is controlled by a Sith, and said Sith wants to wipe out the Jedi/Republic? Let that happen? As history shows, that's not the Jedi way.

 

There are times in interviews - the ones that recently aired on Full of Sith and Rebel Force Radio come to mind - when Filoni talks about working with Lucas and comes off sounding like he's Kif Kroker talking about Zap Brannigan. Listen to the FoS episode that includes Filoni's Q&A session after the screening of the final arc - the part where he talks about the CSI influences in the first episode - and you'll see what I mean.

Disney's not going to put up with Lucas's goofy ideas, though (no pun intended). I think he's in for a rude shock the first time he really tries to tell J. J. Abrams or Bob Iger what's what - approximately the same shock Gene Roddenberry must have gotten the first time he tried telling Nick Meyer what he thought was wrong with Wrath of Khan.

 

It seems like the Clone Wars parallel would have to be the Mandalorian Wars, where the Jedi didn't want to enter the war and there are some hints that Jedi who did fight were turned by the battling itself (and Sith Emperor mind control). I can see there being problems in Jedi waging war and it's true that most of the material we've seen doesn't go into that as much. Where the Clone Wars might differ, though, is that the Jedi in this case are fighting for an institution that's not worth fighting for, that they're tied to even as it rots and stagnates. This isn't a TCW-exclusive idea. The movies touched on it and the EU explores it in depth from time to time.

No one ever seems to bring up the obvious counterpoint, though. Okay, so perhaps the Jedi shouldn't be fighting this war. It's morally questionable to the extreme that they're using an army of bred slaves. But what was the alternative? Let the Separatists have the galaxy? They hadn't attacked yet and the Jedi and Republic did indeed attack first. But they had an army of droids built. They were contracting to buy more and they had a fleet of ships. I suppose one could argue that the Jedi and Republic could have made clear that they had their own army ready to go and bring that to the negotiating table rather than simply attacking Geonosis. They did basically start a battle and war to save three people. And we as an audience know it would have led to war anyway since the same guy controls both sides. The characters don't know that, though. Maybe there was another option, though that would make for a boring Star Wars movie.

 

IMO I think people get too hung up on the "we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers" line.

If you look at something like Star Trek (2009), Starfleet is referred to as a "humanitarian and peace keeping armada." That didn't mean that it wasn't also serving as the military force to take on the Narada (Nero's ship) when it threatened Vulcan and then Earth. Militaries can have a peace keeping role... during times of peace. But it's kind of hard to be a peace keeper when the galaxy has split into two main factions that are engaged in full scale war. What exactly should the Jedi be doing? Negotiating trade disputes and territorial conflicts in neutral systems?

The "[...] not soldiers" part of it I felt was only meant to tie into the notion that "there are not enough Jedi to protect the Republic." The Jedi weren't saying that they wouldn't fight, just that the Jedi were not an army unto themselves. Backed up by an army of clones however, the Jedi could fill a leadership role.

I took it to mean that there were 1,000 years of relative peace without full scale war. In that time the Jedi were able to keep the peace and the 10,000 or so Jedi were enough to fill that role. However, with the threat of full scale war, Mace tells Palpatine (and I'm adding my interpretation her) that 10,000 Jedi could serve as peacekeepers, but they are not enough for an army.

People jump at them for that one quote as though their institution is horribly corrupted or that they should be out keeping the peace (what peace?) instead of fighting. But as others have pointed out, the Jedi HAVE fought previously and in some cases have pretty much saved the galaxy. "REVENGE of the Sith"... What do you suppose the Sith want revenge for? "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy!" I felt like it was STRONGLY implied that the Sith conquered the galaxy (as Palpatine's words suggest) or came pretty darn close (as the EU puts it), but that the Jedi in part thwarted their efforts and now the Sith want revenge.

Without the Jedi fighting to defend the Republic during times of full scale war, the Sith would have conquered. The Jedi are repeating their role in that regard. I do not see that as evidence of corruption at all. They just - unfortunately - were outsmarted by Palpatine (not synonymous with corruption).

 

Rebel Force Radio's direct download:
Clone Wars: Declassified: 520 - The Wrong Jedi

 

I think it was clear when Yoda specifically stated the council was NOT in agreement, he meant he wasn't in agreement. Similar to "But agree to you taking this boy as your padawan learner I do not!"

Yoda will not go against the council. Even if he is the Grand Master. He was outvoted and that was that.

 

Seerow I think I saw you mention Ahsoka having some bad karma, with her getting put through the ringer in this arc. I was just thinking it was good karma to get her to leave the Jedi order and thus avoid Order 66. She isn't coming back...

 

Watto. Does leaving the Jedi order mean she absolutely won't get hunted down as a rogue force user?

 

You are right that would be an in-universe possibility, but I strongly believe the main reason they had her leave is that Filoni personally wanted to save her from execution.

 

Unfortunately no, even leaving doesn't ensure her safety following the rise of the Empire. She may avoid the initial issue of Order 66, but the resultant Purge was devastating in itself. The Imperials targeted known Force-sensitive individuals, surviving Jedi, and even entire other Force-using sects that had no relation to the Jedi if Palpatine saw them as a potential threat.

 

Finally a solid game changer in this series. Of course it's only a game changer with-in the series, but still it's a step in the right direction.

I can completely see that Ashoka will avoid Order 66 and be featured somehow in the sequel trilogy somehow.

 

Why would she be featured in the ST. She has no connection with any of the characters, while as Luke and Leia are now in their 60's being there Fathers apprentice seems a bit superfluous. I suppose you could have her in a series set in the Dark Times and setting up the Rebellion etc though that would be a little bit Mary-Sueish, and it's doubtful Filoni would have her join Vader and work for him.

 

But some of these things Filoni must agree with. Lets face it the fact Ahsoka is alive when Lucas wanted her killed off should show, he is not simply McCullum mk2.

 

You should read this article:
http://www.businessweek.com/article...-bought-lucasfilm-and-its-plans-for-star-wars
Apparently, GL insisted that Iger read (and accept) his treatments for the next three films as part of the deal of selling Lucasfilm to Disney.

 

Dark Times is just sitting there, waiting for her to show up.

/Headdesk.

 

If Ahsoka shows up in any post-ROTS comic, I think it should be Purge.

 

No, just no....

 

Oh yes. After the last episode, I'd love to see Ahsoka offed by Vader. Well written, that could really work. Visions intrigued me and now it looks like (a very remote) possibility. I'd just like to see the moment she realizes it's Anakin right before he ends her.

 

I'm going to side by Lucas on this one. Kill her off in the series please...

 

Interesting. I kinda think we'll never see a conclusive end to her character arc. Even if TCW were to go the direction of killing every other OC off at the end.

 

If they had any self control they would see how profound an ending this past episode could have been if it had truly been Ahsoka's departure from the show itself, and not just from the Order. But because they probably don't have that self control and will start writing dumb stuff with her in it again, just not as a Jedi padawan anymore, something like killing her will again be necessary (just as many of us thought when she was introduced).

I agree that that is probably what they'll do, but they just missed a big opportunity to do that the right way with this past episode. I don't mean that the episode failed in that regard, I mean they've diminished it by stating that Ahsoka will still be in future episodes.

 

When did they say she would be in future episodes.
And why is it that the more "NO's" I see GG post, the happier I get?

 

I'll let someone with the specific sources point them out, but when I mused earlier that the episode could be her final appearance I was quickly corrected by other posters with links and quotes where Filoni et al said that she'd be in future episodes.

 

I am new here. Forgive me if I break any rules. Following the Ahsoka dies ideal. Maul could go looking for her on the Emperor's orders. Leading Anakin and Obiwan to the Outer Rims and we'd be smack down at the door step of ROTS.