ST Who's The Baddie?

Same guy who proudfully and ignorantly kept his back to his apprentice while he tried murder his son infront of his eyes in cold blood. Yup, the guy really wouldn't make any mistakes like that... Oh wait....

Palpatine's greatest character weakness is his overconfidence and pride. Both are made painfully well known to the audience. It is not unreasonable to assume the guy has made more than one life altering mistake. I get that people don;t want Plagueis, but when they come at it form the angle that Palpatine cannot be capable of making mistakes that huge... Well, have you watched RotJ?

 

Now you're just being silly. Killing his master in his sleep is a little different to slowly frying Luke, isn't it?

If it wasn't for Vader, Palpatine WOULD have killed Luke. I don't think there was anyone around to pick him up and throw him down a reactor shaft while he was killing his master in his sleep.

Or do you think Palpatine left Plagueis twitching on his bed and thought: "That's good enough. He'll be dead by the morning. Now to take over the galaxy!"

As for the "Well, have you watched RotJ?" part of your post. How childish of you.

 

To clarify what happened in ROTJ, Palpatine just didn't expect Vader to sacrifice himself for anything/anyone.

 

Or is he relishing in the memory of the THINKING that he killed his master?

You see it how you see it, but that doesn't mean you are correct. You might not be........

 

Sorry you didn't take my sarcasm well. Still struggle with that. I think you missed my point though. Palpatines overconfidence allowed him to make mistakes. Plagueis could have feasibly fooled him.

Sorry I came off childish to you. I think you mostly just misunderstood my point though.

 

I think I see it the way the film was intended to be seen. If that's changed by a future film, or by the EU, those would be retconned explanations.

 

You dont know that.

My opionion is that it was put in the PT for the very purpose of the ST. If thats the case, your assessment would be incorrect.

 

I'm not asking you to agree with me, you see it your way and I will see it mine.

 

My opinion is different from yours, but when you say things like "as it was intended" you are claiming to be correct, when in fact neither side of this argument has any more leverage than the other. Just our opinions and interpretations.

 

That's fine, I do believe I'm correct. Just as you do for yourself. I'm not asking you to agree with me. You see it your way, and I'll see it mine.

 

At no point does the film hint that Darth Plagueis is still alive. It does, however, heavily hint that the guy is dead. From what we hear in the film, there is only one conclusion: Darth Plagueis is dead. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just making things up in their own mind.

 

While we're at it lets bring back Boba Fett & Mace Windu as well. Any characters that are supposed to be dead. That will make the ST awesome!

 

Darth Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin Skywalker. He was dead. Right?

 

God dammit we're back onto the "Did Palpatine even kill Plagueis" fight? It never stops does it? Darn...I was hoping we'd go into a more "What will Plagueis' connection be to the new hero *OTHER THAN just by his relationship to Anakin*" or something that we'd do to give our fan ideas. Oh well...carry on

 

The most logical answer is that he would have none. Whether he lived or died after the story of Plaguies, those events are still quite a few decades before this series will take place. Any attempt to put the two together only comes across as forced IMO.

 

The fact that it takes place soo far away is a bit of a problem. There's a LOT less freedom to do what you want with an already established villain than you do a new creation that you can do whatever you want with.

 

The idea is problematic at best, which is why I think they won't even consider it. It's more like fanfic than something I would expect people to invest billions of dollars into producing.

 

Honestly, both sides have made very valid points. Neither side is changing their opinion. Lets move on, stop insulting each other, and talk about something more interesting than this deadlock decision of, "yeah it's just my opinion, but I am right and your view is silly."

 

Yeah plus from a business stand point you can create dozens of books, comics and other stuff that reveal things about your villain *fans will of coarse shell out anything to know stuff about a character they know nothing about* rather than something that fans/general audience can easily figure out. New=More new books, comics, whatever. Old=Reselling your old stuff *the Plagueis book* or having to retell an old story. Plus they can drum up hype on the identity/appearence of the villain more than a established villain who we can all predict/know what he'll look like.

 

They could come out with many books and comics about what was Plagueis doing in the 60-80 years between Episode I and Episode VII. Also Plag's new apprentice could be the focus of books and comics.

As far as Plag's connection to the new hero, that would move this conversation in new direction rather than going in circles. I haven't really thought about it much, it's a good question though. Harder to answer, meditate on this, I will.

 

I got a tad bit of an idea how to connect them but its becoming WAY too complicated for me to sum up. Kinda relates to the whole "Plagueis is Anakins father" but instead of being this kids father, maybe he's the reason he's still alive? Like the kid died at a young age but out of desperation Luke *not thinkingly* turned to a newly ressurected Plagueis to bring back his child in order to avoid the grief of losing a child. Coarse Plagueis does but of coarse its not all that easy. Plagueis probably see's that this kid will eventually become a powerful jedi so he probably messes with the kids ressurection to make it so he'll be more likely to fall to the dark side and eventually become his apprentice *because who doesn't want a Skywalker*. Then years later the relationship between Luke and his child could become soo much more complicated knowing that in a way this kid should be dead and that the only reason he's alive is because his father couldn't let go *that could cause some drama* and could lead to a very damaged *not all perky perfect* hero who constantly struggles with his feelings of worth and self-hatred while not wanting to become the thing he's trying to be forced into. Plus then you'd have Plagueis being all "You owe me cause I saved you now join me because you are not meant to be a jedi". It would kind of give Plagueis a reason to target this kid and maybe threaten Luke/his family because hey...if you can give life...you can take it right back. It might make him a bit more of a personal/emotional threat than just a physical threat.
IDK....its terrible right

 

Or, what if Plagueis did to the kid (whether a Skywalker or Solo) what Tenebrous planned to do to the Chosen One.

 

True enough. But let's be real: Star Wars is all about retrospective story telling. If Plageuis wounds up being the villain I'll bet Lucas acts like he planned it out that way all along though.

 

Very true. The audience of a new hope "correctly" believed Vader murdered Anakin Skywalker who was a completely different character. Different "points of view" obliterated that though.

 

Unfortunately, in a thread titled "Plegueis in the ST" you can't avoid this. Many believe he is dead. Many are open to the idea that he is not. And even so, we have "dead" characters on the goodguy side that participated and influenced what went on in the story.

I offer you this:

In the OT, we had no knowledge of the Sith. I'm not even sure where and when the "Rule of Two" came into play, but we see it in Ep I. The basic idea is that the Sith operate with only a master and apprentice in part for the reason of not being detected by the Jedi until the time is right to reveal themselves and strike. This is what the Sith did for generations until the time was right and Sidious took action, and it worked.

So back to the OT, one could argue that the Jedi apoted the "Rule of Two" until the time was right to reveal themselves the the Sith and make their play for victory. Yoda in exile on Degobah, and Obi-Wan keeping watch on the "New Hope" Luke Skywalker. This is why Obi-Wan sacrifices himself once Luke is brought into the fold, as only two can exist until the time is right. Luke is instructed (by a dead guy) to seek out Yoda to complete his training.

Now, as Star Wars is made up of many repeating themes and situations, it is not much of a stretch at all that the next part of the story sees the Dark Side have its time were it gets to meddle from the grave.........

My thought has never been about whether or not Plageuis is dead or not.

Plageuis can sensibly be part of the ST dead OR alive.......