Full Series The Even Piell Centre for Canon and Continuity Catastrophes

Look my opinion of all you guys complaining about the books stories not being retained in the onscreen universe is that you knew you were learning about a lower level of cannon when you started the books. You knew that they were stories that GL or Lucasfilm was not involved with so they could come in at anytime and over-write them. So why are you making such a big fuss about it when you knew all this stuff from the start. If GL had stated that the EU books were just as much cannon as the television/movie cannon and then he came back and rewrote stuff then you would have something to complain about. But he didn't so your arguments really are falling short. You knew what you were getting yourself into when you started the books.

You can continue to pay attention to the books if you want to. But I am going to choose to pay attention to what the real story is. And I am not going to feel sorry for you because it is not like you guys were ever lied to. You knew that this day could happen at some point because you were reading a lower level of cannon.

 

Frak it. I'm just going to say your post reeks of elitism and leave it at that.

 

Say what you want. But again you knew you were reading a lower level of cannon when you started the books.

 

And I'm personally of the opinion that if they can deliver a better story visually by overwriting some EU, then go for it. But ALL (I repeat, ALL) of the EU changes in TCW have been for no good reason. Even Piell didn't need to be the Jedi Master who died on the Citadel, it could have been any Jedi and a casual viewer would get sad. Adi Gallia, Barriss.

The visual SW and the EU can very easily coexist. I understand the opinion of the EU shouldn't matter, but it's completely unnecessary. Create original characters!

 

Well that is just your opinion that they aren't better. You know I like the fact that everything in TCW cartoon came out of the minds of the same group of people working together who were also working alongside Lucas. Not a random idea here and a random idea there like the EU authors do (and even many of you EU fans admit that a lot of the books aren't very good).

In anycase it still goes back to the fact that you all don't really have that much room to complain because you knew what you were getting yourself into from the beginning. You were reading a lower level of cannon.

 

I'll give you a couple good reasons for altering the EU and that is because much of the EU in the books isn't very good to begin with. Is just a bunch of random ideas from lots of different authors, did not involve the guy who created the series to begin with.

 

Yes, that's my opinion. Objectively, I can say 22 minutes of television gives a lot less depth than 3 novels and countless comics. There's no way for 22 minutes to match that.

Yes, some of the EU is terrible. So is Bombad Jedi, The Gungan General, Blue Shadow Virus, Corruption, Pursuit of Peace, Secret Weapons, A Sunny Day in the Void and Point of No Return. Oh, and The Phantom Menace.

Lucas is no longer the mastermind. G-canon really doesn't hold relevance any more.

Oh, and I remember being told we were getting an insight into the wider Star Wars saga. C-canon was primarily created so that the films would be infallible, so everyone had to abide by the films - it ensured nobody changed those events. I do not remember being told we were really reading N-canon. That wasn't how it was advertised.

I'd like to ask the real reason behind why you don't consider the EU "true canon". Is it the lack of Lucas involvement? Pretty sure he's not going to be involved in SW much now that he's retiring. SW will still exist in 50 years, Lucas will not.

Is it because it's not in a visual medium? Then how about video games? What about... the Holiday Special?

Saying that the EU is just authors coming up with random stories demonstrates a lack or either imagination or basic knowledge of writing fiction. All thoughts are random! The creation of SW was a collection of random ideas. The novels/comics are no more random than TCW series.

Again, are you going to leave this franchise now that Lucas has? Are all the films going forward N-canon?

I don't think you understand what random ideas are, and how that relates to writing.

 

I completely dispute the notion that all EU changes TCW has made have been for no good reason whatsoever. The Mandalorian change I appreciated to a great extent, and it was ultimately reconciled quite easily. It didn't help that there was a lot of inconsistency surrounding prior portrayals of the Mandalorians. Much of Barriss' earlier C-canon portrayal is still intact and what happens in TCW is perfectly consistent with her prior TCW portrayal as well. Only the Evasive Action online comic is altered completely, and one issue of the online comic is a fair trade for one of the best TCW episodes, in my view. Quite frankly, Barriss' alteration is one of the least egregious ones in TCW. Improvement from earlier excesses? Possibly.

However, agreed on everything else. Why Adi Gallia and not Eeth Koth? Why Even Piell and not Eeth Koth? He was already "dead". With Barriss, I can see that to have a different character a change would have had to have been made as far back as S1's Cloak of Darkness, with Ahsoka being teamed up with a Jedi other than Luminara Unduli. Similarly, I can see why Adi Gallia was chosen for that demise at Savage's hands, her being one of the established Jedi in the series... but so too was Eeth Koth, established in the same episode as Adi Gallia. Even Piell didn't even show up until the Citadel arc and his presence in TCW was entirely contained within it. He didn't even need the Eeth Koth substitution; he could have easily been replaced with an original character.

 

Yeah, I guess I forgot about the Mandalorians because of The Essential Atlas' great job of making everything work. That, and the Mandalorian material is great in this show (barring Corruption).

I said that Barriss could have worked but they didn't give her enough time to make her change believable, and it was more obvious to people who had read MedStar, or the comics that she was underdeveloped.

 

But again you knew you were reading a lower level of cannon when you started the books.

Kinda agree. These guys take as many liberties with the fiction as the show does. Not in maybe fact but in emotions and thoughts and opinions of the characters that maybe never were intended. You can't deny this takes place. The books are an expansion and is one writer's take on the events and they're given freedom of that but it's still just their take on that.

In the end, those who deny the Lucas fiction are really just harboring their overall dislike towards George's decisions in general and are projecting that into just refusing to accept his take on the fiction. But it's his fiction and he's free to do what he likes. If he's going to override the works of some author then that's his decision and he overrides them whether fans like the move or not. In Evan's case it's an oversight for sure but there's so many bloody books, comics and such out there on this stuff it's surprising it doesn't happen more...but in the end, TCW is the canon now.

 

Just because they can make these changes doesn't mean they should. Ideally, TCW and the prior EU material would enhance each other. I can accept an alteration if it produces something worthwhile (see the Mandalorians and Barriss), but there are some alterations which do not produce anything but a few seconds of forgotten drama. Believe it or not, not everyone who disagrees with these alterations believes in or demands the primacy of the EU over the films and television shows.

See again the examples of Adi Gallia and Even Piell.

Would it have had a detrimental effect if Obi-Wan had gone to Florrum with Eeth Koth, who would subsequently fail to make an impact on Savage's knee and thus get impaled with horns and a sabre-staff? Not really. I've seen it argued that Obi-Wan's failure to come to Adi Gallia's aid in Revival is a mirror of her actually coming to his in the fight in Grievous Intrigue. Interesting analysis, but I'd say that the death of Eeth Koth - the guy who Obi-Wan helped save and would ultimately fail to save - would have been just as meaningful.

Similarly, try to think of a detrimental effect from Captain Tarkin and Jedi Master Original Character X being rescued from the Citadel prison in order to protect a hyperspace navigation route, with Original Character X dying and passing his intel to Ahsoka? I don't think there would be any. We got plenty of emotion from the death of original character Kalifa just one episode later. After being developed over the Citadel arc, an original Jedi Master character would have had a similar bond develop with other characters and the audience. I doubt the non-EU fans in the audience realised the significance of who this edgy one-eyed elf was.

 

I agree. I think all these people complaining would have a much stronger argument if they were told in the beginning from the powers that be that the stories within these books were going to be the 'real' story. But they weren't. They all knew that at any given time Lucasfilm could come in and make all the EU material insignificant if they wanted to. Lucasfilm has incorporated some of the ideas into the regular cannon so the EU fans should be thankful for that. I don't feel sorry for them one bit because again they knew this could happen all along because they knew that they weren't reading a real high level of cannon.

As for me. I pay attention to the real story that is either told by Lucas or by Lucasfilm and I can imagine just how many of these EU fans are going to be griping when the sequel movies come out and we find out Timothy Zahn's trilogy has been thrown in the toilet.

 

I'm going to repeat again the novels/comics ARE NOT N-canon, they are C-canon. We were told we were getting an insight into the wider Star Wars saga. We were not told that none of these events happen. We were not told this was glorified fanfiction (that makes LucasFilm money, mind you).

Also, keep saying "real story", as it just goes to show how elitist you are and pretty much debunks your entire argument.

Personally, I'm not going to watch the ST if it completely overwrites the post-ROTJ EU. A 2-hour film has no chance of besting two decades of novels. Oh, and if you haven't read The New Jedi Order, you're missing some of the best SW has to offer.

Answer me this one: what would be the problem of setting Episode VII in the year 50 ABY? Perhaps Legacy would be thrown out, that I could understand. But why not continue the story past the novels. Casual fans won't need to read any of them to enjoy Ep VII. Are you so anti-literate that this material must be thrown out, even when that isn't the case?

Also, there's a big LucasFilm Licensing logo on every book and comic. This stuff is done by LucasFilm.

 

I chose not to read the EU for two reasons. 1. Because a lot of it is not very good. 2. Because I knew it wasn't the real story. So no I don't think your arguments hold a lot of water because you knew you were not reading the real story.

 

Has somebody programmed a bot? This is a bot, isn't it? You keep repeating the same thing even though it's incorrect.

 

1. Ignorance is bliss.
2. lewl

 

You knew all along that C cannon was not a story told by Lucas and at any given time Lucas could come in and make it insignificant if he wanted to. So don't try to warp it into you thinking you were reading the real Star Wars story.

 

Because that is all that really needs to be said to answer any of your arguments. You knew all along you were reading a lower level of cannon.

 

Ignorance is saying how bad the real story stinks simply because it is not what you want to see.