ST Who's The Baddie?

Do I smell a lawsuit.........?

 

It could very well play into the narrative that Plagueis IS the reason for the newly found Jedi ability to retain their consciousness in the Force.

Luke's mission of conquest may have had other implications beyond fixing an epic failure of Jedi training. He was kept on a need to know basis after all, arguably even through ROTJ.

Here's some food for thought Lunar Moth-

What if Obi Wan and Yoda really had died at some point before ANH. They were able to manifest physical bodies as perhaps Plagueis might, until they let them go upon accomplishing their missions. They were the only two characters to physically disappear into the Force. Everyone else got *jumped out* by cremation.

 

The though of this is interesting based on the idea that we were kinda promised an explaination for the disappearing Jedi. I wouldn't go as far as to say that we will find out in the ST that the Obi and Yoda we know died as you describe here, but Plageuis having, in a sense given the Jedi this ability, is interesting.

 

"...kill on site mentality" - that's awesome!!!

That's a great idea. In the past there were prolonged periods of time where both Orders existed. Why couldn't we see that in a future sequel? Steering your idea back to Plagueis, what if Plagueis is THE common enemy that must be eradicated from the physical realm? Perhaps his walking between worlds threatens not just the Jedi, but the Sith as well? And by extension he is a real galactic threat to life in general?

 

Ok, maybe not out and out death, but the ability to walk between worlds. What works one direction may go the other way too?

 

No, I'm not siding with one department over another, what I'm suggesting is practical effects takes a completely different set of skills which require no less training than a CGI artist, it's just a different line of training. I work in film within art department and so I work closely with both departments, I know what goes into both. I find your comment highly belittling of the work they do.

 

Top 10 Reasons Yoda Was Actually Dead All Along

 

Although there are a few interesting points in this article, none of them really hold up.

 

Agreed

 

I like your answer ACoD! That really is the current idea behind Obi Wan's act. Even furthering your thought, the idea that he died as a martyr in the eyes of Luke would solidify Vader being *evil* in Luke's mind. Thus, Obi Wan could foster Luke's growth as a Jedi in a more meaningful way in this form, with that exit.

After all, there's one room for one in an X-Wing...

The angle on the situation I took was the possibility this feat could be co-opted for a Plagueis return.

 

Experiments of Plaguueis were supposed to be above all in contrast with spiritual success of Qui-Gonn. He might got opposite solution as well, somehow got imprint of his consciousness into some kind of "net of medichlorians" and since then watching galaxy from the eyes of biggest midichlorian concentration - Anakin (therefore effectively watching OT). When sith duo dies, Hego Damask gets himself reincarnation prontu, but becouse Force is balanced, majority of his Dak Side powers are impotent and he tries to awaken them, maybe by the use of Kiberr crystals.

I am feeling inccredibly stupid now, but I just had a case of fanboy enlightment.

 

There was no competition, i just sent in my story and hoped to get lucky enough to have GL take a look at it. Which he may or may not have done, i'm not 100% sure, but i do know that at least one if not a couple of people over there must have read it, because i talked with Steve Sansweet on the phone for a couple of minutes about it and he thought some of my ideas were very good; also, the copy i sent them was never returned to me. I suspect some of my ideas may have been incorporated into RotS because there were elements of the story that i recognized as distinctly similar to ideas i'd had, so it would've had to have been quite a coincidence if they didn't. I also suspect, based on what i've read recently, that many of my ideas were probably used in some post-RotJ EU that was written/published after 1999.

I've already given a general outline for some of the ideas i'd had. They're in many of my posts. I had also posted alternate drafts of my ST story synopsis on this site several years ago, i think around 2004, although i can't remember exactly. Palpatine per se had no role in my version of the ST. You have to remember, i wrote my ST version in the summer of '99 after having seen TPM, and never having read any EU what-so-ever. My story was completely virgin, and original.

 

I would never even consider it. I sent my story in with zero expectation, and even stated in my cover letter that they could use my ideas freely. I'm honored just to have had the opportunity to have my story read by Lucas and/or his lieutenants. Heck, just to know that maybe some of my ideas were used in the PT or EU, or may yet be used in the future, is a priceless honor in itself. Besides, i'm not much of a writer per se exactly, i'm more an idea man.

 

I was kidding, first of all. Most people wouldn't have the guts to send their ideas in to begin with.

Good on you!

 

You know what would cross the T's and dot the I's on that prophecy? Actually hearing the prophecy!

 

This along with the obviously obvious change in his demenor in ROTJ, which for those who missed it, was a clear indication on how far Luke had come.

 

It was obviously the high midichlorian count

 

Not exactly sure how I tripped the pet peeve perimeter. The statement I made was tied to the idea that Luke's teachers in the OT withheld information, and could possibly have withheld more than he was aware of, as pertains to the ST or Plagueis.

Viewing the OT strictly from Yoda and Ben's perspective, I fail to see the romanticized epic of son finding father and saving him from himself, while son becomes enlightened in a few years past the level of the JC members????

Yes, the old Jedi guard trained Luke with the highest priority of killing Vader and Sidious. They left significant gaps in their retelling of history to Luke with the sole intent of furthering their "destruction of the Sith" agenda that began in the security tape room at the Jedi Temple on Coruscant decades prior.

From an audience member's perspective, yes, Luke's the bomb. But in your previous paragraph, while listing Luke's shortcomings (during the ESB time period), you expose a flaw in your own argument. The fact that Luke, as you profess, lacked "patience, detachment, and faith in his abilities". Yes, Luke wasn't ready to face Vader at Bespin. But those qualities you mentioned would have taken years, if not decades, to develop to the point of a JC Master in the PT. Do you really think Luke facing Vader on Bespin, after his "beating" by Vader, or even the "DS II final duel Luke" had as much ability as apprenticed Anakin just before Order 66 was executed? And yet Anakin wasn't allowed on the Council, neither granted the rank of *Master*. Even after killing Dooku and saving the Chancellor and Kenobi? Obi Wan himself doesn't even start sitting on the Council until after significant accomplishments personally and professionally. By cross-examination, was Anakin a master of his emotions when killing Dooku, or when he was named as "Lord" Vader and took out the Temple? As your logic indicates this self mastery would explain both the Jedi Master and Sith Lord titles, would it not?

Are you telling me ESB Luke could have beat Dooku or Maul? I'm not even sure if ROTJ Luke could have beat either of them. Yet, the ROTJ battle was more of a hearts than swords campaign. One always had a feeling Vader was taking it easy on his son. During the final duel, a strong argument could be made that it was rather Luke's faith in his father to change, as opposed to his mastering of the qualities you previously mentioned. A strategy that was all Luke's to fulfill his Sith conquest on his own terms.

Luke was trained and sent on his way to destroy the Sith. Don't get me wrong, Luke's a great character. For all of Luke's good qualities, he was not the Chosen One. Anakin possessed that moniker. Let's not place the halo on Holy Luke's head and read into the films his fantasized feats of strength and works of righteousness. Luke was placed by Ben Kenobi on a narrow path of fixing their (Yoda and Ben's) *mistake* of training Anakin to use the Force. Luke, as a person, did evolve past the systematic Old Jedi conflict resolution protocol of neutralizing all enemies of the Light. Luke brought compassion and love to a yin/yang conflict. Though Luke was a Skywalker, he wasn't the creation of the Force. His father Anakin was. Thus the son cannot be greater than the father in this regard. Luke's achievements in the OT are not equal nor greater than Anakin's in the PT.

 

Since the prequels I've seen Luke as the Jedi Hail Mary, a man with little training but as you say a weapon to kill Sidious/Vader and unfortunately with the introduction of the midichlorins I've kinda seen that as the reason he didn't need much training to become a Jedi. I also think Vader was taking it easy on Luke but Luke actually became more powerful when he let his anger and hate take over when Vader spoke of his sister. This is why Palpatine got all giddy after Luke chopped Vaders hand. Luke harnessed the darkside of the force and caught Vader off guard.

I think in reality it all boils down to Lucas creating the story as he goes along over the years. I don't think he had one giant vision of everything when he made ANH. Did he know or think back then that Jedi were trained from very young childhood or was the process of becoming a Jedi as simple as he made it look in the OT?

 

I doubt, no I rephrase that so I’m making myself clear, I don’t believe that anybody at Lucasfilm would read an unsolicited script/treatment. The industry standard is that any material must be submitted through an agent. The company will not officially read them, and I doubt that they would unofficially read them because then there would be a point for suing for copyright infringement and they have so much other work to do. They aren't going to send the material back unless a paid for envelope is provided- can you imagine the cost of sending back thousands of unsolicited scripts. There is no way that Lucasfilm would rip off your ideas because the lawsuit against them would be potentially huge especially for a film that grossed as much as RotS and they aren't going to waive that off with written permission in a letter, that would take detailed legal contracts.

 

See the story on our own theforce.net

Interesting, but if this were true (huge grain of salt taken), where would this disciple come from? Could it be Maul back from the dead a la Clone Wars? Someone else who was always in the shadows?

This would slap the whole "prophecy" thing in the face, though. Unless, one of the Skywalker/ Solo children was actually the "chosen one".