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Lit Apropos of Nothing - ACKBAR IN CAPITALS - The Lit Forum Social Thread, v2.0.15

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Master_Keralys, Jan 1, 2009.

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  1. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Oh, that is just precious.
     
  2. Barriss_Coffee

    Barriss_Coffee Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    OK which one of you hooligans.........?
     
  3. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    She did remember, that is lying.

    Thats not my definition of courage. Seems a lot like cowardice to me. No doubt she was traumatized, no doubt she was very young to be put in such a situation

    When did I mention Arya? This isn't about Sansa vs Arya, this is about Sansa doing something that clearly calls her morality into question early in the story. It doesn't define her character for the rest of her life, but it is there.

    And if your going to defend Sansa for being a child, why stop there? Joffrey is a child as well. Good kid that one.

    I'm not sure how this is any different from the book, which is what your charge is. I have given you a completely legitimate reason, based on the novel, why some people would not like Sansa Stark.

    I've given my novel to another so I can't check myself but I am very curious what qualities Sansa had in the first novel that she didn't have in the first season of the television adaptation?
     
  4. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006

    I asked this question: What made you go the route you did with Darth Bane when there was already some establishment for his character in the Jedi vs Sith comics? (For example, making him a relatively new Sith rather than the grizzled veteran of the comics)
     
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  5. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    You're now tagged as "<<<< POINT GIVEN!" in bright pink.

    I'm sure you're thrilled.

    EDIT: Also, good question. Independently of the continuity issues surrounding it, I'm genuinely interested in why he wanted to make that change.
     
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  6. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Wow, there really is a subreddit for everything. Interesting that he's letting people submit questions early, unless that's a common thing. IDK, I don't really follow the AMAs.
     
  7. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I can't believe that I'm debating Sansa Stark in the Lit social thread and going quote by quote, but here goes...

    How do you know? She remembered after the fact, but it's very easy to get things scrambled in your brain in the heat of the moment, especially at that age.

    I'm reminded by another thread in Lit right now, but I have to say that avoiding conflict is not inherently cowardly. She tried to defuse a situation. This is different from, say, retreating from a battle while illegally taking command of a fleet...

    Her morality? A sibling throwing another sibling under the bus is a totally common occurrence. I mean, kids attack each other, for goodness sake! Who stole the cookies? It wasn't me, it was my brother/sister!

    Come on. Let's not be melodramatic about children squabbling. You act as if she handed her sister over to Ilyn Payne while eating grapes on Joffrey's lap, or something.


    The difference is that Sansa has shown that she does not have ill intent, and that she is a kind, decent, and thoughtful person who thinks about the suffering of others while Joffrey is malicious and delights in brutality. This is like saying that a child pulling hair and Elagabalus were roughly comparable.

    It's more that they're making her deliberately seem worse than she is. When you can get inside her head, you can see why she acts the way she does, and it's never malicious. It's just that an audience is more sympathetic to Arya being a rebellious brat than they are to Sansa valuing the finer things. All I can tell you is that when I read the books, Sansa is the only character in the first novel who's POV completely matched my own. I read her, and I just got her. I can feel a lot of sympathy for her having an annoying sibling, and for her values being misunderstood by the larger public.

    JackG, I didn't mean anything from subsequent books. I mean just books 1 and 2 alone -- basically, Arya is a selfish, jealous brat. Her first POV has her rebelling and acting out from what's expected because she sucks at it and Sansa is so perfect at it. She's not an individualist; she's a sullen, angry, envious little monster. And yes, from the way her character develops, you can tell that she's awful. She definitely has a lot in common with Cersei.
     
  8. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 29, 2005
    No. He has to read the books. The show is not a substitute.
     
  9. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

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    Nov 28, 2000
    Havac, get RF to read ASOIAF. It is unacceptable that one of the Lit mods should be so... uncultured.
     
  10. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I do watch the show, but fantasy is a hard sell for me, and I tend to forget 75% of what's going on between seasons. I may very well need you guys to give me a refresher course in the next couple weeks.
     
  11. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2009
    *Cough*My reviews*Cough* Just tell me if you want an offhand pun of the High Septon.
     
  12. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    Fixed.
     
  13. Lugija

    Lugija Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 3, 2009
    Interesting stuff happens, everybody dies, nudity.
     
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  14. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
     
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  15. krtmd

    krtmd Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 5, 2012
    I think HBO has a GOT so far in less than 10 minutes refresher. I'll look.

    eta.
     
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  16. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    The books are awesome too, Coop, but GRRM has so many damned named characters that I am constantly having to refer to the chart in the back. I have enough trouble remembering the 100 or so "supporting" characters, to say nothing of the 500-plus background and spot characters who pop up from time to time.

    I mean, do I really need to know the name of the kitchen boy to House Whatchamcallit or the name of the seamstress who walks out of the room? Damn you GRRM! :p

    --Adm. Nick
     
  17. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    ...which is why fantasy is a hard sell for me. :rolleyes:

    Thanks for the video, k.
     
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  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    If Martin finishes the series, then it might get a second chance, until then, nope.
     
  19. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

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    Oct 29, 2005
    ... you know Nick just basically described the EU as well? :p
     
  20. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 28, 2003
    Well, in the EU's defense, we have had hundreds of novels and comics to flesh things out. GRRM, on the other hand, feels the need to overload every book with too many characters. The EU is big due to the number of years it has been around and the sheer numbers of series it has produced. I cannot think of a single EU book that crams needless characters in to any level approaching what we see from GRRM.

    --Adm. Nick
     
  21. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 7 VIP

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    Jul 8, 1999
    But those characters have spaceships.
     
  22. RC-1991

    RC-1991 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 2, 2009
    Yeah, but all of those superfluous characters do wonders to flesh out the fantasy world that Martin has created. And they're often used as a vehicle to casually drop bits of history, politics, etc.
     
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  23. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 12, 2006
    No answer from Karp yet.
     
  24. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 19, 2007
  25. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

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    Dec 12, 2006
    Karpyshyn's answer

    "I actually didn't think the comics explicitly had him as a grizzled veteran. We don't see much of him; he kind of lurks in the shadows. I guess you could assume he's been a Sith for a long time, but I didn't get that vibe. He seemed like an outsider in the comics, and I figured someone who had a view of the Sith that was so different than all the other Sith Lords had to be something of a new comer to the philosophy.
    Based on that, I wanted to explore where he came from and how he came to his unique vision of the Dark Side. It's a classic hero's journey, from simple commoner to savior... but with a dark side twist."
     
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