Full Series TCW bonus material episode discussion (spoilers)

It demonstrated that clones were able to turn on other clones, setting up intriguing implications for disobedience during Order 66.

You can't tell me Carnage of Krell didn't scream Order 66. There's a shot of Rex and co. that pretty much mirrors the 501st marching on the Jedi Temple in ROTS.

This show does so much foreshadowing that I've seen people say there's too much.

 

I do agree that Carnage of Krell screams Order 66, but I don't see how that's a basis to assume that:

1. Tup received Order 66.
2. Order 66 has a Manchurian Candidate effect.

 

I don't know what to think of Tup's situation yet, as we're seeing that scene completely out of context. I apologise if you thought that was what I meant.

I just know that it will be foreshadowing it in some way.

 

To be quite honest, subtlety is hardly one of TCW's biggest strengths.

 

I think Krell does foreshadow order 66. The clones get the experience of taking down and executing a Jedi. Then there is the matter of Rex not being able to pull the trigger on Krell. He is resolved to do it mentally but its like he just can't. See how his body shakes? That's a combination of fear and disgust with himself. I didn't see anything to indicate 'sister Jedi' was a traitor. Tup's pupils dilate like he is on Sudafed then he shoots her. Something definitely snapped in there. Perhaps he broke up in there like Dogma. Definitely seems like this arc will have something to do with order 66 to me.

 

I'm Tup is more than just a traitor. We've been there and done that with Slick. Next! Sad it has to be Tup though. He's almost cute in Umbara.

 

It seems that by choosing to act against the Republic due to his visions of the fall of the Republic, Krell unwittingly helped plant those first seeds of doubt in the minds of the clones about their commanders. Krell's vision thus became in a way a self-fulfilling prophecy culminating in the eventual issuance of Order 66.

I've heard both sides of the argument regarding whether Order 66 was brainwashing from the way the clones were nurtured and created, or whether it was simply an executive order taught to the clones that they were compelled to act on simply by following orders (I personally believe it's a little bit of both). We already know how the clip seems to support the former explanation, but the latter point is valid in the sense that rogue Jedi like Krell are likely well known amongst the clones, and over the course of the war more and more clones may become skeptical of whether their Jedi commanders truly have the best interests of the Republic in mind. Thus they become more pliant to following Order 66 without question.

 

I think its probably a mix of stuff that makes order 66 effective. I tend to imagine controversially that there is a trigger switch brain watched into the clones. Probably not exactly like brainwashing, IMO but more like engineered conditioning like a lion's instinct to chase, tackle, and throttle something that runs even when not necessarily hungry. Its a bred in instinct in the cat that become much stronger through experience. Now I don't really think its a desire to kill or execute Jedi but more an instinctive distrust and wariness Sidious's Xanatos gambit with exploit. I know that's awfully animalistic but my point is the clones already have this switch, brainwashed training for order 66 and experience with the Jedi will make it stronger and condition the clones to be more likely to follow that fatal instinct without question.

I think you right that the Clone probably know about rogue Jedi. I wonder how they'll spread rumors about Ahsoka now. I have always imagined that while Krell was known for high casualty numbers on the flip side of the coin Anakin may be famous for his temper and his own recklessness with clones, particularly the ones not used to him. Anakin probably did probably kick Boost and Sinker's asses for losing Ahsoka.

 

I've said that you can't ignore the line, "Good soldiers follow orders."

Tup is choosing to be a good soldier.

 

An interesting when thinking about Rex's speech, "I used to think being a good soldier meant doing exactly what we're told. But we're not droids, we're not programmed. You have to learn to think for yourself."

 

That line is the best evidence I can think of for why Rex wouldn't follow Order 66 if he's around for it.

I guess it really does come down to the clones' psychology; what makes a good soldier?

I think it's really ironic that Anakin is always telling Ahsoka to trust his crazy plans. Just go along with it, it'll work out. The clones, of course, follow suit. But then they've been taught into just following orders regardless of how crazy they seem.

It makes it much more likely that the 501st would follow Anakin into that Temple in ROTS.

 

But who planted the order?

 

That's the big question, isn't it?

I, for one, am interested to see Dooku's reaction. Trench definitely isn't leaving this episode with that kind of information, either.

 

So what people! I've just read a page worth of worthless debates. What real bonus content are we getting? Thats the real question we need to ask becuase quite frankly we've got Darth Maul alive when he should be dead, Rex is still alive yet he was no were near ROTS. I don't wamt to start, but we have now another incomplete star wars story like TFU II.

 

The thread title (particularly the "major spoilers" part) gave me the impression that the thread is also about what's going on in those previews.

 

If the rumors are to be believed, we are getting two arcs. They haven't specified the details yet.

Since Darth Maul was brought back, there's no real reason why he should be dead. He wasn't in ROTS, but he could have just been off somewhere else in the galaxy. Who knows. But for all we know, he lived another hundred years after TCW.

 

Do you think we will get a season 5 dvd/blu ray release?

 

If they don't address Maul, I'll be super ticked with how they ended Lawless. They purposely changed that line. That annoys me particularly because it robbed us of hearing Ian Abercrombie's final vocals and stuck us with the awkward transition to Tim Curry.

 

Rex seems like he's been setup to be the point of view Filoni mentioned all the way back in commentary for Slick's episode for exploring what happens to clones who don't follow orders. These bonus episodes are sure to be heartbreakers for Rex fans like myself because the one thing I am very confident in is Rex's fate will be resolved, This Order 66 episode looks like it anyways.

The clone psychology all comes down to experience. Rex implies in Darkness that at some point he was just like Dogma but he changed. Its a wonder what happened to change Rex because although "The Deserter" is Rex's biggest character moment until Umbara he seems pretty fairly independent right from the beginning in the TCW movie. He actually gets far more open minded from his encounter with Cut and in Umbara fully realizes the lessons learned their. I've always been confident there are a few good callbacks in Umbara most notably the speech I wrote there from "Carnage" which I think is as direct a callback to Cut as there will ever be, the least perfect soldier and yet a good soldier.

I think one regret I have is the lack of screentime between Anakin and Fives so far. In Umbara, Fives seems to idolize Anakin everytime he mentions him. In "The General" Rex actually tosses Anakin under the bus when he is defended Krell's methods. Fives practically jumps to defend Anakin. Then we've got "Dissent". I can easily imagine Fives and Echo back when he was alive sitting and listening the Anakin telling an embellished version of when he took out the droid control ship in Jack Lloyd form. Fives sounds impressed. In many ways Fives imitates Anakin with his style, his brash behavior (both are similar in this regard. Is Fives the Anakin of clones?), and gungho sometimes crazy plans. Rex does as well but Fives took it to the next level. I'm curious to see where Fives will land in all this. Fives is really almost as independent as Cut is to an extent but just isn't as smart as Rex or Cut are. Fives seems to exist to instigate Rex.

I think Umbara helped explain why the 501st is with Anakin. Until the Ahsoka Fugitive arc they were the only clones that chased down a Jedi and they remain the only ones of chase down a Jedi Master (Krell was a master right?) and dispatch him. That'll count for something. I don't think Rex will go into the temple though. I don't think there is room for him.

It will be, there aren't any previews yet. This thread is supposed to be what the "Season 5 major spoiler" thread is.

I agree that Maul's story need to be completed before the show wraps up. Its damn near criminal to bring him back and leave off with "I have been plans for you".

 

If they do end up not having another Maul arc then would it be safe to assume Sidious killed him after Lawless?

 

That will be left up to books/comics that may be produced from TCW scripts that were completed.

 

I had actually assumed that anyway until I came to LACWAC and everyone was, "WHAT WILL SIDIOUS DO WITH MAUL?!?!?"

There's just little benefit to keeping Maul alive when Sidious' plan is presumably very close to coming to fruition.

 

It should be included and distributed by Warners since they own the rights to that season so they should still be able to release Season 5.