ST Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

How is that in anyway different from what I said?

 

One says the story is going to be original. A follow up the EU would be an original story.

Saying you don't have a book series (when there is 30-40 books) to sever as a template (which is a pattern, a story can be original and still follow a template) is a strong indication that Episode VII won't follow the EU.

 

I think you didn't get what I was saying.

 

Post Hoc Fallacy

Template means no direct book to movie adaptation in the pureist sense (aka episode VII will not be The Thrawn Trilogy or another book) and not quite following the EU time line if taken more loosely (meaning Chewie could still be alive to hundreds of other variations). However it doesnt imply that Lucasfilms cant use things they liked from the EU such as characters. So far both the PT and TCW have used at least some EU characters, a lot more species from the EU, tons of societies from the EU, and countless planets from the EU (more so clearly with TCW show than PT)

So statement A) of the book series wont serve as a template for the movies doesnt then imply B) that therefore no EU characters will make it in either.

 

I'm curious if you have quotes from Disney that back what your saying here?

The only quote I've seen was the one that stated that the Sequel Trilogy will be an original story. This is in no way confirmation that the EU will not be used.

 

A good screenwriter (or novelist, for that matter) will include all relevant backstory within the dialogue, action, and opening crawl. I never saw either of the Hulk movies but The Avengers told me everything I needed to know about Bruce Banner for that story.

 

No it doesn't, that would be an adaptation. A template is just a pattern. Jaina Solo training Allana is a template.

You also keep going back to using minor, unimportant things in the movies - That isnt' what anyone else talking about except you. We are talking about hte major characters and storylines, not a planet's name or a back ground character. No one made the connection from A to B that you are arguing. Could include a Jedi with a beard in a green cloak in the background that some people will say is Corran Horn? Sure, will they follow the story of Jaina and Allana, with Jacen have turned to a Sith, will Chewie be dead etc.... very unlikely. ANd if they throw all that stuff away and have a background Jedi with a beard and green cloak, thats still them stomping on and ignoring the EU.

http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/content/star-wars-not-harry-potter-says-kathleen-kennedy-video

Because all you need to know about the Hulk to follow Avengers is - he is Bruce Banner and when he gets made he turns into the hulk. The Star Wars post RotJ EU is a tad more complicated and important IF they are going to build a movie on those stories and keep everything consistant and true.

 

Actually Template is defined as something for others to copy but saidly you missed the context of "novel" being specified, which implies far more general than specific story elements or characters. Not sure I even need to cover the fact that Jaina never trained Allana or that editing Jacen doesnt effect Corran as you imply beyond the few times they delt with each other... next off have you never heard the term spiritual successor or adapated character.

Finally, if you dont think others are pointing out what I just did either you have a very short term memory, selective memory, or just arent listening. Next to no one thinks or is demanding the full EU will be used and kept (though there are a few), most are stating it will be edited again. You are saying a more extreme pov of dump it all, while others are being more moderate, so clearly others are arguing for what Im saying too only difference being the examples I focus on vs them and you using that to discredit my pov.

 

Ryus - its people like you and posts like this one that make me not want to talk to people online because you force stupid conversation like the meaning of the word template rather then just accepting things for what they are.

A Template is a pattern or mould which serves as a guide - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Template?s=t - And the producer of the movie has said they don't have a book series that would serve as a template (ie - GUIDE) to what the movies will be, but it all comes from Lucas. When has Lucas ever consulted the EU for story ideas?

You also completely missed the point (which is par for the course) - they can, and most likely will, stomp all over the existing post RotJ EU, and that doesn't mean they can't throw a green robed Jedi into the background of a scene for people to claim is Corran Horn. However if Chewie is alive, Jacen didn't becoming a Sith, Allana doesn't exist, the solo kid(s) have different names, Luke isn't married etc.... having a green robed Jedi in the background doesn't mean the EU wasn't stomped on and ignored.

 

Examples from the Prequels not withstanding the Lucas commanded The Clone Wars strip mined the EU for story ideas. Almost every single episode has some tie to the EU. Sometimes it respected the EU source it came from, other times they went their own direction with it.

That still says absolutly nothing about the EU getting, or not getting used. Your making up facts to suit your own point of view. She is saying that the new film will not be based on the existing books, thats all.

I expanded that to include any existing story because that is the thrust of the point she is trying to make. Episode 7 will not be based on an existing novel, nor an existing comic or video game. Nothing about that statement excludes the possibility of the EU still being adapted for use to fit with the new films.

 

Fair enough.

Lucas has never let the EU constrict him and he never felt the need to stick to what the EU established before him. We know the ST story came from Lucas and was given to Arndt to flesh out, and that Lucas was/is still involved in creative meetings regarding the ST. Last year when Lucas starting putting together those outlines he didn't look at what was in the EU previously and work on what he thought would be a good Jaina or Allana story, or how Jag would do next etc...

Beyond that we've been told the story's will be original and the producer dismissed the book series outright.

Sure they might throw an easter egg in here and there, but Episode VII won't follow the EU novel series and the current continuity is most likely about to get stomped on and either replaced or its relationship to the movies changed.

 

There are EU story ideas in the prequels?

 

Fenton the feeling is mutual... must be hatred of ones own kind Now can we please act like grown ups and stop insulting each other.

Also Robimus just answered the key question to the very foundation of your argument. Simple fact is the EU has been borrowed heavily from yet while make new and original stories that retconned that very same EU by George Lucas orders himself for TCW. Disney CEO Robert Iger stated his writers would use the EU for inspiration too the very day the deal was announced, which implies pretty much the same thing.

Kathleen Kennedy's comment was very ambigious at best beyond it wont be a known EU book adapation since it can be inturrpeted in so so many ways beyond that. Lucas himself sold the rights to Star Wars just so the stories could survive him via a new generation of writers, so what kinda message would it be to then turn around and ignore and never at least pay respect to authors who already have played in his sandbox prior. Yes, Lucas' story treatments will be top proirity but beyond what clearly could never be adapted since its just too far apart why wouldnt they take something old and put it in a direction they want to put it in? After all what would be the harm in it beyond once again retconning the EU, which has happened endlessly since its creation to varring degrees.

 

Small bits here and there.

Coruscant was a name taken from the EU. Aayla Secura and Quinlan Vos were EU creations(even with Vos's appearance being based on an extra from TPM). Stuff like Swoop bikes, double bladed lightabers and certain vehicles from the EU also appeared.

There were certainly contradictions with the EU as well, EU stuff that needed to be rewritten to fix the single continuity. But not so much of it that the EU universe couldn't carry on as a whole with the films.

 

No actual story ideas that I'm really aware of... more like references like the names "Coruscant", "Palpatine", etc.

Edit: Just saw Robimus' post.

 

You have a link to him saying that? Because I provided one of the producer and the new head of all things star wars dismissing the books as a source of inspiration. I did a google search for Robert Iger Star Wars EU - nothing came up, mostly him talking abotu Spin-off films, which would be perfect for them to say "we will turn some of the popular novels into the spin-off films" but they never did say that. Every comment I've found made at the time of the sale mentions moveis and tv, nothing about books.

Kennedy's comment si only ambigious because you keeping trying to shoe-horn the word adapation into it. Thats not what she said and she was pretty clear.

 

He inferenced the EU with the "17,000 charecters inhabiting several thousand plants spanning 20,000 years, this gives Disney infinite opertunity and inspiration..." quote ... and Ive given you the link before.



Oh, he sited it again in Feburary when he offically broke the news that they where making stand alone movies as well... he also specficially mentioned the holocron which is nothing but a collection of EU and its relation to the shows and movies when discussing the timeline of what lead up to Disneys aqusistion of LFL.

 

Lucas apparently had be convinced to use the name Coruscant, he was going to rename the planet in the original TPM script. Also the Aayla apperence wasn't Lucas. The story ther e(and htis was on Star Wars.com for a long time) was Lucas saw a comic book cover with her on it and say "put a character like that in the battle scene, I like the look", and that is as far as his involvement with it went. She was named in the credits by someone else.

Its a bit of stretch saying Lucas got Mauls weapon from the EU. I had that idea when I was 6.

The difference between the PT era and the ST era is the amount of content. Thats what will make retconning the post RotJ EU next to impossible if the ST don't follow it.

 

You said - Disney CEO Robert Iger stated his writers would use the EU for inspiration too the very day the deal was announced, which implies pretty much the same thing.

What he really said - The Star Wars universe has over 17,000 characters and several thousand planets spanning 20,000 years. This gives Disney infinate inspiration and oppertunities to continue to the star wars saga

Nothing about writers in his statement or that the EU will be used to inspire Episode VII. Beyondt hat, its been made clear that Kennedy (you remmeber her, the one who dismissed the books as a template for the movies to follow) is the one in charge of the movies, who hired Arndt and Abrams etc... not Iger.

Also, lets just think logically for a second. We've been told Lucas is sitting in on creative meeting, and we've been told that people like Zahn aren't. Lucas has said he doesn't keep up the books or really know whats going on with them (he even called them a seperate universe). So if the ST was going to be an EU follow up wouldn't they have people who knew the EU universe and the writers of that universe in the meetings instead of the guy who doesn't keep up with it?

 

That's true, there is a lot more content there to be retconned.

 

its also content that is next to impossible to retcon out and maitain the stories.

How do you say Chewie is alive and just never showed up again? Or Han and Leia had completely different children? Mara, never married Luke etc.... Changes like that just kill the continuity.

 

Exactly. It can't go both ways. Anyway, I try to stay neutral on this, but I do not consider myself to be an EU fan. I watched the TCW series if that even counts, but I was often not happy with what they did with it. And I've read just five SW novels, and just didn't feel motivated to read any others. I've read enough summaries of the rest of them to know they wouldn't be for me.

Anyway, that's just me and everyone in here has valid opinions. But the idea that you may or may not be able to retcon things that don't get included in the new movies is certainly valid, and I also don't see Disney or Lucasfilm relying too heavily on plotlines from the EU for the new movies. I hope they can somehow find a balance which upsets the smallest possible number of fans.

 

You do realize that actually implies EU might be more common this time. Since clearly it indicates there are LFL employees fighting for the EU to be recognized. Lucas was clearly the road block and its no longer his call, yet all those LFL employees still work there now with possibly actually having some creative freedom and secret desires they might have had for years involving both new plots and the EU stuff.

Its true Kennedy seems the type to generally support Lucas vs the EU but producers in movies arent the king/queen (the Director is) and next off she's new so more EU could slip past her guard and next off she is her own person with her own mind so maybe unlike Lucas she'll view using harmless EU stuff very favorably and might even view other EU elements as great fits into Lucas story treatments. True, mostly speculation but it does point out that Kennedy isnt Lucas's henchwoman but her own very savvy buisness woman whos had a very successful career and might make different choices.

 

Names of background characters and vehicles aren't story ideas.

 

Sansweet is the one who convinced Lucas to keep the name and he isn't there anymore, but Lucas is still involved and he still has pull and influence and the people in charge. ANd who says Abrams or Arndt want to both dealing with the books? Abrams made a whole Star Trek movie so he didn't have to deal with that universe's continuity.

Kennedy is/has been set up as the Queen of Star Wars (With Lucas as her Yoda). And the director is one who just completely restarted Star Treks continuity rather then deal with it. He also didn't let Shatner int he movie because he didnt' want to take time explaining story that took place in a book (Kirks resurection). Not a strong pro-EU argument there.