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CT Plot Holes in the CT

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Klingon Padawan, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. Darth Vader's Chest Plate

    Darth Vader's Chest Plate Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2013
    When building the defence shield generator on Endor had neither the imperial troops or Ewoks seen each other? The reason I ask is that the Imperials appear to be shocked at their first encounter.
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I can think of a few for A New Hope.

    Why doesn't Vader have Mos Eisley Spaceport blasted the moment he discovers the droids are on Tatooine, to prevent them escaping?
    Why isn't either Han or Chewie in the turret of the Falcon, trying to shoot down that TIE fighter they're chasing, when the Death Star first catches them? It's no further away than the ones they shoot down later.
    Why isn't anyone covering the backs of the people trying to hit the thermal exhaust port- ready to drop in behind guys like Vader and shoot them first?

    And so forth.
     
  3. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    When they realize they're being tracked after escaping the DS, why don't they change ships?
     
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  4. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 30, 2013
    edit: wrong thread!
     
  5. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Possible answer- "because they need to make the Death Star come to them"

    Still seems very risky, especially considering they only had less than a day to analyse the plans, identify a weakness, and destroy the Death Star.

    At least based on Vader's "This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi. It will soon see the end of the Rebellion."

    I suppose Han, being greedy, might have insisted on being taken straight to people who can pay him the reward money, and wouldn't have accepted stopping elsewhere and waiting for them to send him the money.
     
  6. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

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    Jan 3, 2013
    It's also possible that Han "not this ship, sister" Solo just flat out ignored the possibility. He was the one flying, after all.
     
  7. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    In ROTJ why does Obi-Wan sit on a rock while he's talking to Luke? Ghosts get tired of standing?
     
  8. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    ...Uumm Vader's goal was to turn Luke to the dark side and then use him to destroy Palpatine. Sidious' goal was to turn Luke and rid himself of Vader.
     
  9. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

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    Jul 2, 2004
    They could change ships and then head to Alderaan to get the money.
     
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    And who would Han leave the Falcon with?
     
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  11. anakin_skywalker_sct

    anakin_skywalker_sct Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 18, 2001
    1. It would be politically messy, not to mention there are probably a dozen spaceports on the planet and anybody can just take off in a ship from anywhere on the surface. Most likely Vader and his crew assumed they could just scan and capture any ships leaving the surface they were suspicious of; it's clearly common Imperial behaviour.

    2. There was no reason to engage the Empire in a firefight at that point, it would cause too much trouble, and they didn't yet realise how much trouble they were already in. Later they use the turrets because they simply have to escape.

    3. That's why the runs were made in groups of three, two were meant to cover the back of the one firing the torpedoes. The Rebels also hoped that a tiny clutch of fighters could break off from the main assault and sneak up to the port without drawing too much attention and alerting the Empire to their plan. Everybody else was just causing a smokescreen, so to speak.
     
  12. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2002
    Why does Luke conveniently slip out the back door of Hoth while the Falcon flies straight into a fleet of Star Destroyers? Were the Falcon's sensors broken? Was Han so stupid he didn't know how to read them? Why didn't Vader hypothesize that the rebel they're looking for (who famously destroyed their big, bag super weapon in an x-wing) might be in an x-wing during the rebels' escape from Hoth?
     
  13. darthbarracuda

    darthbarracuda Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 4, 2012
    This is also kinda with the PT but the clone/stormtrooper armor is completely white, shiny, and offers no camouflage whatsoever. You think they could at least paint the armor green when at Endor...(I know some of the clones had camo armor but the majority was super white)
     
  14. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    It was his favorite rock.
     
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  15. darthbarracuda

    darthbarracuda Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 4, 2012
    I think it was something like making himself seem friendly and humble and wise, instead of standing up, possibly coming across as threatening and overpowering...
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Alderaan was politically messy- yet Tarkin had no problem with destroying it.
    Han is trying to destroy the fighter though- which is why he's chasing it, despite Obi-Wan telling him "waste of time, it's too far out of range"
    They're not exactly "covering the back" though- not by shooting back at the marauding Imperial fighters. All they're doing is acting as "ablative wounds" for the lead fighter.
     
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  17. Darthbane2007

    Darthbane2007 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 31, 2007
    Just a small storywise one: Why didn't Palpatine consider using funds instead of a second Death Star, just build a fleet of those massive Executor-Class Star Destroyers?
     
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Possibly because he figured that "exploded planet" has a higher deterrent value than "devastated planet".

    And, as Han put it "There are a lot of command ships"- suggesting that he did, in fact, have quite a few Executors build.
     
  19. anakin_skywalker_sct

    anakin_skywalker_sct Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 18, 2001
    1. Yes, but please note that 'politically messy' was only one of numerous points I made there. Skipping the rest of the explanation is rather unfair. Regardless, messing with the Hutt could be a much larger headache than blowing up a planet which has no weapons anyway.

    2. Han isn't the only person on the ship, and he clearly agrees (reluctantly) with Obi-Wan after a short period of time. The second they realise there's a space station there, they all know a firefight would be a terrible idea, something Obi-Wan probably sensed a moment earlier. This isn't exactly a long chase, there's not a lot of time for Han or Chewie to rush to the turret anyway.

    3. What do you expect them to do, fly backwards? They can't just keep looping back around on the TIE fighters to fire at them because TIEs are more manoeuvrable and the trench is far too tight to fly like that. Acting as a human shield is also pretty normal in dogfighting in movies, which is what Lucas was modelling this scene on.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The solution is to fly far enough back that, the moment the TIE fighters drop in, they're exposing themselves to being shot in the back.

    Having ships flying above the trench, some way back, watching for enemy fighters entering the trench, can also help- that is- if they can avoid shots from the towers.
     
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  21. anakin_skywalker_sct

    anakin_skywalker_sct Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 18, 2001
    That's why the TIEs drop in behind the X-Wings. Flying in front of them would be stupid. Why would they do that? You forget that the X-Wings have a job and a destination and are at a disadvantage in terms of speed and agility. They are not dictating the terms of this engagement. Even if they tried, the TIEs would just keep looping back, and we'd have a half hour of the ships chasing each other in circles until the Death Star destroys Yavin IV.

    Also, remember my point that these were tiny groups that split off to attack the exhaust port, and they had to stay tiny to avoid the Empire figuring out the plan and doing something drastic. Imagine if Tarkin had been smart enough to realise "they're all concentrating on this trench near the exhaust port. If they hit that, the station will explode. Better run for it now and come back when we've put a proper shield over it or something". Also notice that only Vader and his wingmen actually knew what was going on and engaged these groups. It's not exactly an unfair fight when there are a bunch of X-Wings and a few Y-Wings hanging around the trench.
     
  22. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The important part is to have people travelling down the trench to hit the target, while any would-be interceptors get kept busy.

    After Gold Squadron got shot down, you'd think Red Squadron would have figured out that, since there'll be fighters chasing them, they need better cover.

    In short- people to do exactly what Han does - only earlier.
     
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  23. anakin_skywalker_sct

    anakin_skywalker_sct Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 18, 2001
    So we'll just ignore all that other stuff I said because you are for some reason incredibly attached to the idea that the Rebels must use your tactics and no other?

    X-Wings and Y-Wings are far less agile and are slower than TIEs. Yet again, the Empire's ships are dictating this fight, you can't just make them fly in front of the Rebels so they can get shot. They'll always come in behind and they'll always be able to more or less stay there. The Falcon swooped in through the chaos of the larger battle and used its large turrets to take out the fighters from above, thanks to the element of surprise. The Rebels couldn't do that because Vader and his wingmen (again, the only TIEs dealing with the trench) knew where they all were. And as I already explained, concentrating exclusively on the trench could easily have tipped off the Empire and wrecked the Rebel plan. It could also have drawn the entire station's fighters and overwhelmed any attempt to deal with interceptors. The Rebel tactic worked because they were only dealing with three TIEs instead of ten thousand.
     
  24. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It's more that, when a tactic is seen later in the movie, the absence of its use earlier in the movie, when it would have been handy, looks like what could be argued to be a plot hole.
     
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  25. anakin_skywalker_sct

    anakin_skywalker_sct Jedi Master star 5

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    Apr 18, 2001
    More than what? Did you actually read my full post? You are completely ignoring the explanation of why that tactic worked for Han and wouldn't have worked for the Rebels.