ST Who's The Baddie?

Here are some different thoughts I haven't seen mentioned anywhere in this thread.

1. OneOne-FourDee, Plagueis' trusted droid, was the only witness to most of Plagueis' experiments. FourDee could have been used by Plagueis in some way, to contain his essence, perhaps he was carrying some kind of creature that Plagueis had discovered in his experiments, that would make for an appropriate temporary host for his essence? FourDee was present for the entire "death scene" between Plagueis and Sidious, this would also explain why he seemed to just give up and not fight back, the moment he stood up briefly before falling back on to the couch was the moment his essence was transferred into whatever containment system he had placed inside of FourDee.

2. Plagueis as Damask was the one who had all the previous dealings with the Kaminoans, he was the one that suggested to Sifo-Dyas that they could create a clone army for the Jedi. Now while I agree that a clone of Plagueis would be lame, what if what the twist was, is that Sidious killed a clone! The real Plagueis never allowed himself to be alone with anyone, it turns out, not even with Sidious. Sidious killed a clone and Plagueis was allowed to slip into the background. Remember that the details of Hego's funeral were kept a secret by the Muuns.

3. Early in the book, Plagueis displays his ability to slow his hearts and breathing down to the point that his vital signs can not be detected. This takes place aboard the freighter he boards shortly after killing Tenebrous.

 

Darth Claire

I hear what you're saying, but I sincerely hope not. As weird as they are, there's something about the design of a Sith Muun that I rather like.

 

They would definitly have to make some changes to originalize it so the voldie people can shut up. In a sense its a lose-lose job. If they change it completely, some fans will complain that he doesn't look exactly like he does in the EU. If they dont change it, Harry Potter fans/general audiences might think they're ripping off Voldemort. They'll have to find a happy medium between "Like the comics/EU" and "Fresh and new never seen before"

 

Bah! Couldn't give toss (to the UK members of our family, did I use that correctly?) if a character from another franchise looks like a Muun. Let the 'voldie people' piss and moan all they like!

That said, if I remember rightly, the only movie depiction of a Muun we have is San Hill, and while they share some similarities, I don't think he's that much of a carbon copy of Voldemort. Other than a flattened nose, Voldemort generally boasts what is basically a normal human head. The eyes, the ears, the shape of his head. All fairly normal looking. The same cannot be said of Hill. If anything, I find the design of a Muun much more original than Voldemort, who has a cool look of his own, yes, but give him a nose job and he's basically a fella who shaves his head and needs to maybe get himself out into the sun a bit more often.

Besides, the novel describes Plagueis as having some uncommon features for a Muun, so there's built-in wiggle room already.

 

Maybe the clone of Plagueis was killed.

 

That's one of the ideas Darth_Quintonis mentioned, too.

 

What you people here seem to forget: Voldemort and Plagueis have extremely similar personalities as well. They're both cool, calculating villains who like power and cheated death. You could easily have Voldemorts Horcrux plotline in a star wars novel and nobody would bet an eyelash.

 

I honestly wouldn't know. Other than the fact that he's the villain, the only thing I have to go off of with Voldemort is the look of the character's design.

I've never read the novels and, other than catching a few minutes here and there on television, I've never experienced much of the franchise. I did once witness Potter go up against some large, snake-like beast at the end of one of the films, and I recall the kids at the school flying around, playing a ballgame of some sort, but that's about it.

 

Well, then let me tell you that book Voldemort and Plagueis could be evil twins as far as looks and personality goes. Book Voldemort is cold as ice and Plagueis is the same.

 

That's why I'm glad Disney is going to steamroll post ROTJ-EU. Don't get me wrong, I love some of the EU (Old Republic era especially), but having this specific Sith come back is stupid and undoes the plot for the movies.

 

I don't mind essence transfer, just the fact they used it on SIDIOUS. Any other Sith I would have been OK with. For example I don't mind what they did with Darth Vitiate in The Old Republic.

 

[quote="DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR, post: 50633904, member: 696974

The thing I don't get is: Lucas was okay with the writers resurrecting him, but later went on to say he didn't like the idea. It doesn't make any sense that he would allow it, but then later scoff at the idea of how it was handled. I mean, any other way they would have brought his ass back would be just as ridiculous, no? So why allow it in the first place?

quote]

George Lucas works in mysterious ways.

 

If you get choked in real life, you may have trouble using the Force to save yourself.

One problem is that Plagueis never discovers essence transfer. It is portrayed as having been lost to the Banite Sith as a result of the Gravid affair.

 

If we get some sort of IronMan/Star Trek/ Thor villain I quit.

Sidious using clone bodies is different than a Sith who dedicated just about his entire life to cheating death (it would also be nice to have a new villain with ties to the Sith grand plan). In the film ROTS it's also implied Plagueis created life (Anakin) via force manipulation. I would think Plagueis manipulating the force to be reborn would fit with the story line. They're probably going to use an all new villain with no link to the past Sith which will end up turning Star Wars into a sort of Star Trek series with run of the mill villains like the 'evil bald guy' (John Carter) or Khan or Star Trek time machine guy or Klingons. They need Sith at the least or it just isn't Star Wars.

 

But one using clones as avatars is one way to cheat death, no? How many other ways are there? We can buy Jedi ghosting and coming back to speak to the living. But a Sith spirit travelling into a cloned copy of his original body is stretching it too much? I mean, whatever happened to Vader and his saying that everything is insignificant to the power of the Force?

 

Maybe the writer of the Plagueis book forgot to mention that Plagueis did secretly discover the essence transfer ability. Because I do not think the book says that Plagueis could not at all. It could say that Sidious did not think that his master could, but so what. The master of Sidious may have had secrets that Sidious did not know. Sidious told Anakin in the ROTS that the apprentice (him) learned everything that Plagueis knew. But how would Sidious know this? And Sidious would not admit to Anakin that maybe there were things that even Sidious did not know, that Sidious does not in fact know how to do all the secrets of the universe. So, Sidious would never admit that to anybody but there had to be things that Plagueis knew.... or maybe even Tenebrous, the master of Plagueis, or maybe even the master of Tenebrous, or his master, or his master's master, all the way back to Bane or before Bane..... or secret sith.... or other unrelated bad people... or good people gone maybe bad

 

Because Sidious wasn't consumed with cheating death. Plagueis dedicated almost his entire life to the subject because his master made him, at first, but then he became consumed by it. Even Sidious says in the films that cheating death is a task only one Sith had mastered. The plot is opened up at that moment. If Lucas was to have Sidious be the one obsessed with immortality a plot line would have or should have been introduced in the films. Another thing is, although Sidious is a great villain, it would be a tad tiring to have him around as the villain for all the Star wars films. Plagueis would be new but at the same time completely connected to the previous six films. It was hinted that he created Anakin, that he can cheat death. In the book he was the one who was behind the entire plan to politically take over the Republic. He's the one who fooled a Jedi into ordering the clone army etc. It's much different than Darth Maul somehow surviving being cut in half or Sidious possessing another body. For me it would fit in with the flow of the series unless they were going for a whole new Star Wars which wouldn't be episode 7 it would be Star wars a new beginning or something along those lines.

I don't know, there's even fans who think there should be no Sith at all. I'd rather have Sidious essence transfer into clones than have no Sith at all but my ideal scenario if there is to be no Plagueis would be to somehow introduce a new Sith who's goal is to rebuild the Sith order without the rule of two. Have episode 9 climax in a grand battle between rebuilt Jedi and Sith orders with the previous films detailing the rise of the new orders while focusing on other events/characters in the galaxy as well setting the stage for more films in the future. Who knows what they're going to do. I have no friggin idea other than there being Skywalkers in the new films.

 

This 'Essence Transfer' thing sounds like one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Palpatine is dead.

The only Sith I would be able to accept coming back without batting an eye is Plagueis, since its already established that he was the only Sith to to accomplish the feat of using the Force to cheat death. But even then it'd be a bit hard to believe, seeing as balance was effectively brought back to the Force in Return of the Jedi. So I guess that means that, if he somehow does come back, that would mean that there is a loophole of some sort in the prophecy (or some kind of a fail safe, if Plagueis is indeed the one who used the Force to conceive Shmi via the midi-chlorians). Or, perhaps he can come back but not as a Sith at all. Its a strange concept to think about but he was the only sentient creature that possessed the ability to cheat death. After Revenge of the Sith Qui-Gon Jinn was able to transcend death rather than cheat it, and he passed this knowledge on to Obi-Wan and Yoda, who presumably passed it on to Anakin in his final moments. What if Plagueis wants this power, and is determined to leave behind the Sith way to achieve it? He wouldn't be able to succeed, of course (Qui-Gon explicitly says that "It is a state acquired through compassion, not greed." in the fascinating deleted scene from RotS), but to him it would be within the realm of possibility and could potentially tap into new, unexplored aspects of the Force.

If Episodes I, II, and III were about the manipulation and corruption of the Force and IV, V, and VI were about restoring balance to it, what if VII, VIII, and IX are somehow about transcending this balance?

 

Palpatine using astral projection or whatever to save himself is winning me over, now. If it's possible Plagueis knew it or was near to learning it, then it's possible Sidious did learn the secret itself.

Plus, it would explain the blue fire rising up from the shaft, too.

 

The blue Force lightning coming from his fingertips isn't enough to explain that?

 

Sidious, Plagueis, Bane, or somebody leaves a video, tape recorder, hologram, or something behind for others to see. Like what you see when Super Man goes to the North Pole to discover a lost hologram video of his real ALIEN dad talking to him about who he really is. Maybe Sidious or some bad guy could leave behind some secrets for other bad people to get or maybe some good people or neutral people or innocent people run across this stuff or you could have different planets or groups going after the holograms or crystals for the secrets and have the conflicts and mixed opinions and feeling from everybody about it and have one person steal it and another persons teals it from that person.

It could be like a magical ring that Plagueis left. Or a compass from the Pirates of the Caribbean that leads you to where your heart desires.

 

Like a Grand Moff Tarkin? Who can challenge a powerful Jedi effectively? If there were no bad force users it seems that the Jedi would easily dominate. Just having a hard time imagining an effective villain.

 

I want a villain who can stand on his own and doesn't need to rely on a past villain to make him a threat*like "Hey I was a apprentice of palpatine! FEAR ME!*. Sure you can have him be a apprentice of Palpy but dont have that be the main reason we fear him. Just have it be like a detail that adds to the threat he already is. If the only reason we should see him as a threat is because he is the apprentice or is directly connected to another character then...IDK...that doesnt seem like a good idea

 

Or a D.

 

How about a mad scientist, like Dr. Evazan?