Lit Origins of the Empire

Well, I do not really want to talk about the origins of the Galactic Empire, but about how Palpatine incorporated symbols and designs which were originally used by other factions.

For example, the symbol of the Galactic Empire is clearly based on the symbol of the Sith Empire (TOR).
The uniforms and tanks used by the Clones and Stormtroopers ressemble those used by the Republic during the TOR time period. The armor can be traced back to the Mandies as well.

The Sith Emperor created the rank 'Moff' and 'Grand Moff". Palpatine later used them as well.

The Imp Star Destroyers not only ressemble the Venators, but also the Sith Warships.
Palpatine's Crimson Guards originally were Senate Guards or Sun Guards.

Discuss!

 

Somewhere, just now, Jello's spider sense is tingling.

Many of these old-new-designs came from TOR. Many have complained that the game-makers took the Galactic Empire and just inserted Sith everywhere. I think I facepalmed when I realized that the Republic Troopers look like Clone Troopers and the Sith Empire troopers look like Stormtroopers.

But in-universe I don't really have an idea of why Palpatine wanted to incorporate Sith Empire designs other than for the lulz. All the symbols come from the original Bendu symbol used by the monks of Bendu long before the Republic.

 

Per the Atlas Moff is actually an older title initially reserved for Warlords that joined the Republic but kept nominal rule of their part of space.

There are older design around that already have a Star Destroyer look, so the Lost Sith (no not the tribe), nor the TOR Lost Sith or the Lost Jedi that founded the Sith Empire came up with it.

For a people with force powers they really are s... at hyperspace navigation

Episode 1 era Senate Guard are apparently model after Soldiers from old Core World wars, so the look might actually be way older.

 

James Bond also wears a necktie resembling the uniform of the fifteenth-century's Croatian Military Frontier.

Human beings are not as creative as they tell themselves.

 

I am still holding out for some army in the GFFA that goes for old Ottoman Empire style uniforms.

 

There are older design around that already have a Star Destroyer look, so the Lost Sith (no not the tribe), nor the TOR Lost Sith or the Lost Jedi that founded the Sith Empire came up with it.[/quote]
Yeah. The Ravager springs to mind.

 

With regard to armour and spaceships, maybe in the SW universe stuff like that generally follows all the same convention? For example, on earth, most of our aeroplanes have two wings and a fuselage and generally take a similar shape. It could be that the designs he chose were simply extensions of older models that served their purpose well, as we would do with cars or planes etc.

With regard to the stuff from TOR, I also gawked at how they just took the empire and replaced all it's beings with Sith. Worst part about the whole thing IMO.

 

As far as naval aesthetics are concerned, the happiest explanations would seem to be either (a) that there is some sort of major secret historical connection between Kuat and the Sith Empire or (b) that large numbers of massive dagger-shaped ships are ideally suited to the needs of the Old Sith Empire, the Clone Wars-era Republic and the Galactic Empire yet are not the logical design for every major naval power (and indeed the Republic for large parts of its history). A 'sleek, blade-like form simplifies shield distribution' but that alone seems insufficient.

Or...the Sith, regardless of philosophical differences and millenia of development, just really like triangles. They use them everywhere and just can't help themselves. Like Pythagoras in Red Dwarf.

Actually, now I'm really attatched to the image of beleagured shipwrights telling Doriana or Moore or whoever to shut up about the stupid triangles.

 

The ire rises!

 

Well, as someone already pointed out, the eight-rayed roundel is of Dai Bendu origins (see http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Order_of_Dai_Bendu). Its inclusion in SWTOR as the emblem of the Sith Empire is something of an aberration. From an out-of-universe perspective, I can understand why the developers did that: to make sure that casual players would equate the Sith Empire with the Galactic Empire in terms of evil. But in-universe it just doesn't make sense that the Sith endorsed a Dai Bendu symbol.

 

I disagree. I mean, sure, I'd rather they'd have not used the symbol... but given their Jedi origins, the Sith Empire using a corrupted Dai Bendu symbol works just as well for them from an IU perspective as it does the Galactic Empire. (Well, not JUST as well, since obviously the real Empire is corrupting a symbol that had most recently been associated with the Republic... but you get the idea )

And I'm still convinced that Vitiate had a hazy vision of a Sith Empire ruling the galaxy, thought it was his destiny, and so tried to create it. Unfortunately, it was Palpatine's destiny.

Thus the TOR Empire is a knock off in universe, as well as out.

 

Well, then you'd have to wonder why the Republic would adopt that symbol in its late years since it was last used by a Sith Empire. Granted, the Bendu sigil had a grand ancient history. It was featured heavily on the Jedi Knights' banners during the Unification Wars that gave birth to the Republic. But that was more than 25, 000 years earlier! Its use by the Sith, however, was much more "recent history" by the time of the Clone Wars. In real-life, that would never happen. Just think of the swastika. It's a very ancient, positive symbol, but Western people wouldn't dare to use it because of what the Nazi made with it. Its initial positive, beneficent charge has been forgotten because of the atrocities of war.

If Palpatine came with the idea of using the Bendu sigil during the Clone Wars, probably someone would have told him: "Wait a minute... wasn't that crest used by the Sith during that bloody gawdawful Cold War?" Of course, he would try to explain the symbol's true origins, but people wouldn't even want to hear/believe it. Which, again, is exactly what happens in real-life when you've got to explain why your ancient Roman shield bears swastikas.

 

And Bail Organa would have asked "What Sith?"

 

Sorry Lugija, I got the impression that it should ring a bell in my head, but it just doesn't. Do you mean that knowledge of the Sith was very poor at the time of the Clone Wars, even among the elite?

The Sith Emperor didn't create those ranks either. He just reused them. The name of Moff emerged in the small, Pre-Republic satrapies that formed the Republic. (Per The Essential Atlas)

 

Some novel (Labyrinth of Evil perhaps) said that Bail thought the Sith were a myth until the Clone Wars. So the common people of the galaxy can forget major stuff.

 

Well, if it does appear in a novel, we're kinda forced to admit it. However, that too is quite absurd and a sad oversight on the author's part. There have been at least 5 major conflicts (not just localized wars, but more like our "world wars") involving the Sith throughout the history of the Republic, and yet a well-educated patrician, a university benefactor like Bail Organa doesn't know that? Sheesh. He's a Prince of Alderaan and a Senator, not the common rabble. Don't they have history lessons in the GFFA?

 

Nah, not especially. The Sith and Galactic Empires use a corrupted six spoke variant. The Republic use the true, unperverted symbol.

Honestly, I wonder more about why the Felpire continues to use something that was -- as I understood it -- always intended as mockery of ancient Jedi iconography.

 

Ignorance. If we're going to accept that Alderaanian nobles knew nothing of the Republic's eternal archfoes, then it's not too hard to believe Fel didn't event think about the origins of the Imperial crest.

 

The Sith usage of "Moff" is most likely due to the Empire being dominated from 6,900 BBY to 5,000 BBY by Dark Jedi coming from the Republic, with their descendants continuing the usage whether they knew its origin or not. The Essential Atlas states the word came from pre-Republic times, refering to ancient warlords, long before the Sith Empire as founded by Dark Jedi came to be.

 

It's mainly problematic for me because the Felpire ends up being ruled by Jedi.

 

I think the IK are more like the gnostic societies to the JO Christianity = that they take some part of the teaching that they like or have use for and ignore or misinterpret the rest.

I hope there is no Gnostics here who take offense of my crude comparison

 

I figured they came about after the Council refused Fel II a divorce.