Discussions Top 10 Greatest Swordsmen/women in the EU.

Ulic Qel Droma, Nomi Sunrider, and Exar Kun were no slouches with lightsabers, and that's just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

 

It's just really hard to put things into perspective between the OJO and the NJO.

 

How much literature is there on Exar Kun? I'd love to learn more about him.

 

Not much. You've pretty much got his stories from Tales of the Jedi. Then him as a Spirit in the Jedi Academy Trilogy. The lack of appearances is why I was so surprised when I found out just how devastating the Great Sith War was. Anything else on him are just things people have said about him or what he did (Such as creating the Terentateks)

 

There's so very little on the old sith lords. And the one or two novels about them have been rather... odd? I loved Darth Bane Path of Destruction, but was not a fan of Revan, or the one that I forgot the title of with the multiple sith lords that were all related. Pretty weird stuff.

 

I'm a fan of Revan...oh wait, you meant that sorry excuse for a book...never mind

 

Yeah, Revan as a sith lord/jedi master was AWESOME! Even if I never really got the impression that he was an amazing duelist. Actually, aside from Bane, Kas'im and Exar Kun, do we know of any Sith that were known for combat?

 

Ajunta Pall was supposedly DA AWESOME dueling wise. But I don't think we ever got anything on him outside of KOTOR 1.

 

I don't even remember Ajunta Pall in Kotor. I need to replay that one I think.

 

One of the Tombs on Korriban was his. Where you go for his sword actually, and meet a Sith-guy who talks like he's the guys biggest fanboy.

EDIT: And here we go:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ajunta_Pall's_blade

 

Right, I think I remember. I guess I'd just like some good novels from that era that aren't quite as weird. It would be awesome to see some of the ancient sith and jedi fighting and really get a feel for how good they were.

 

Yes...yes it would. But who knows if we'll ever get any. I still want to see what made these ancient Sith so 'awesome' personally.

 

We definitely know who the bosses were of the Jedi order, but not a lot of the Sith. I agree. More info on the Sith.

 

So, after having read a massive amount of books since starting this post, I would like to reconstruct my list.

Luke, as he is the fulfillment of what the Chosen One could have been. Most dangerous man in the galaxy.
Yoda, just because he's freaking Yoda.
Palpatine. Fought Yoda to a stalemate after having dueled and killed 4 members of the Jedi council.
Mace Windu, because he was basically Palpatine's equal as a duelist. He lost to Palpatine due to Anakin's betrayal and Palpatine's superior Force power.
Anakin Skywalker. He was an amazing duelist, but prior to his maiming, not quite as great as the others on this list. Had he not been maimed...different story.
Count Dooku being the only member of the Jedi Order to be as revered as swordsman as Yoda and Mace, and his ability to fight both Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Kas'im, the Sith Blademaster. The only reason he lost to Bane was because of Bane's superior Force abilities.
Darth Bane, because of his defeat of the Jedi on Typhon, although that might have been due in part to his indestructible parasitic armor.
Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus. Luke was considered to be the only person who could out-duel Jacen.
Corran Horn for my wildcard. He accompanied Luke and Jaina into the depths of the Jedi temple and was responsible for the death of numerous Sith.

 

I think that Jaina and Obi-wan deserve to be up there. Jain certainly played her role in FotJ and Obi-wan is...well, Obi-wan.

 

I love Jaina and Obi-Wan, but I don't know that I'd put them over anybody on my revised list other than Jacen/Caedus or Corran. Obi-Wan beat Anakin not because he could out-duel him, but because he could out think him. And Jaina is fantastic, but I don't know that she's quite proved herself. I'm sure the Sword of the Jedi series will change that.

 

I'd place Obi-Wan above Corran, but not Jaina. I agree, she really hasn't proven herself.

I said it before in regards to Bane vs. Kas'im: To go toe to toe with the best, you have to be one of the best. Obi-Wan didn't manage to survive a duel with Darth Vader, Count Dooku, and Asajj Ventress simply because he was smart. Those are three people that have been classified as great duelists and have more than enough support to back it up. General Grievous, while not Force-Sensitive, was still an excellent duelist and one of the most prolific Jedi Killers of all time, yet Obi-Wan defeated him. Dooku, Obi-Wan dueled and lost to on Genosis, but improved enough over the course of the war to hold his own three years later, and really i'd go so far as to say that, just like Kas'im, Obi-Wan was only defeated on the Invisible Hand due to Dooku's greater mastery of the Force. Ventress, Obi-Wan survived numerous duels with, and she herself killed numerous Jedi as well as survived an encounter with Mace Windu, who you yourself have listed as the 4th Greatest Lightsaber Duelist of all time. Darth Vader, Obi-Wan then dueled evenly and soundly defeated by sticking to his style and giving ground until he saw his opening and took it, maiming Vader for life.

I think saying he only won due to being smarter is true, but diminishes the victory in a way. Intelligence plays a part in any fight. One has to constantly be thinking of their movements, their opponents movements, and their own next movements, all while taking their surroundings into account. That's an aspect of dueling, just like swinging a lightsaber is. Vader's failure in that area is simply one spot where he was inferior to Obi-Wan when it came to dueling. You acknowledge the accomplishments and praises of other duelists such as Dooku and Caedus, so you have to do the same for Obi-Wan. Mace Windu considered him The Master of Soresu, the entire Jedi Council trusted him to defeat General Grievous (Who'd again killed numerous Jedi at this point), Count Dooku acknowledged his skill in Form 3, Darth Vader admitted Obi-Wan was one of the few who'd been skilled enough to scar him, he defeated Darth Maul as a Padawan and then held his own against Maul and Savage Opress as a Jedi Master, etc.

 

I definitely reject Corran as a choice, now that I think about it. Obi-Wan should definitely be on this list, but I'm not sure where to place him. Would I place him higher than number 9, Jacen/Caedus? I'm not sure that I could, due to Jacen being second only to Luke Skywalker himself during his lifetime. And yes, definitely no Jaina. In the temple, Luke and Corran were still fighting, despite being nearly twice Jaina's age, yet she was unable to fight at the end. Give Jaina another ten years, and she'll be up there.

 

To be fair, if Obi Wan makes the list (which he probably should) then I think Maul deserves a mention as well - realistically he beat both Obi Wan and Qui Gon, his failure wasn't in the combat part of the duel. Unfortunately we don't really have much more evidence to support his claim to fame, but everything I've read about him places him as one of the best physical fighters that went around at the time. But I agree with all other points about Obi Wan, he went toe to toe with anyone who was worth a dime and came out the better most of the time.

 

Anybody else have a pick for a top ten? I'd love to know what other people think!

 

Nodody did mention Cin Draling?

 

Silas Allender I'd say so because really that's Caedus's only claim to fame lol and as i've pointed out before it came completely out of nowhere. His feats with the blade are so much less than what others achieved. Even then, yeah he was said to be the 2nd Greatest Duelist compared to Luke, but that doesn't automatically mean he was nearly as Luke's level with the blade. It simply means that he was the 2nd closest to Luke in the galaxy, which could still leave quite a large gap between the two. For example, in terms of Sith, Dooku was the 2nd most powerful Sith of the years between AOTC and ROTS. That's a fact, but does that then make him close in strength to Sidious? Of course not! It's only that way due to circumstance. Realistically, who else was a great duelist during the Legacy time period? Kyle? Kyp? Corran? All 3 are also quite lacking in lightsaber feats. This era simply wasn't a good era for dueling lol. Obi-Wan outclasses Caedus in my opinion. He dueled evenly with people acknowledged as some of the greatest of their time, who themselves have feats to prove such a claim.

Minez01 Darth Maul fighting evenly with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan is a nice feat, but nothing outright spectacular when you look at the other people on the list. Neither Jedi were known for their lightsaber skills, and Obi-Wan especially was simply a Padawan at the time, a long way off from his prime. He's a great fighter to be sure, but there are simply fighters here who are better. I would say he's far better than Corran however.

General Immodet Cin Drallig like Caedus is also lacking in feats. Yeah he was a lightsaber instructor. Yeah he mastered all forms of combat, but besides that he did nothing else.

 

I originally had Mara on this list, but I think that was a bit controversial. I would love to include a female, but there just isn't enough info on the female duelists. I guess Depa Bilaba (?) would make the list, but she was pretty much a carbon copy of Mace Windu, in regards to fighting style, and there isn't any more info on her other than that. Jaina just hasn't impressed me as a duelist. Fantastic pilot, for sure, but she hasn't defeated anybody that was her equal or greater without outside help.

 

Have to agree. If I was ever lucky enough to write a star wars book i'd make it into a trilogy with a female Jedi as the lead and really flesh her character out.

In terms of good female duelists, I really don't think Jaina's anything special personally. Or Mara for that matter. Depa definitely deserves a mention for going toe to toe with Mace, and if I remember correctly he even outright stated she'd surpassed him with the blade. Darth Zannah also comes to mind as well.

 

I really loved the character of Darth Zannah. I'm not sure if her character should be explored more or not, although it would be fun if they did. I wonder how things with Palpatine would have turned out if Depa wouldn't have went crazy. Imagine if Depa would have joined Mace and the other members of the council. I think Palpatine would have lost quickly.