Senate The Future of the Republican Party

That's how people make their case for something: they find arguments that support their cause. There's nothing strange about this: Both sides do it; moreover, even children do it. It is the nature of discourse...

If you would not have people proceed in this way, what would you have them do?

 

Maybe examine the facts that pertain to any given issue and how they may affect the general populace? Sorry, late again, and didn't read the last few pages of the thread.

 

Whoa whoa...don't be making sense and using that there logic now. You'll undermine the system.

 

Wannasee I think what the point they're making is that substantive objections facilitate debate. For instance, even if one sharply disagrees, saying "I think the Second Amendment should have no abridgements because I don't trust the police" establishes a firm rationale for opposition to gun control. The two sides can then debate on that basis, and with the key facts including the trustworthiness of the police. This is how a normal discussion works.

However, using purely procedural gambits like "this should be a states rights issue" doesn't really do that. No one ever knows what your actual position ever is. You block a policy without contributing anything thoughtful to the discussion about whether we should have said policy, an alternative one, or its polar opposite.

Conservatives have reasons they oppose each thing they oppose, abortion included. Everyone would be better served if they just explained what those objections were.

 

I agree. I think (and this is merely my opinion) that conservatives, when it comes to social issues have very little credibility. When one's stance on a particular social issue, i.e. abortion or same-sex marriage, stems purely from a predominantly religious reasoning, there is very little room for debate. The opposition is based in reason, science, and fact. Eventually conservatives will have to give up their positions in favor of the opposition because whether they like it or not they're going to realize they don't have a leg to stand on when it comes down to wanting to legislate based on those positions. They're going to have to settle for what is ultimately a common sense approach: Don't like abortion? Don't have one, etc. It's always been as simple as that. At least this will enable them to concentrate on their fiscal platforms, which are arguably far more relevant in the political arena.

 

It's not so much about religion versus facts, as much as it is that social conservatives want everybody else to follow their lifestyle proscriptions. For these people, freedom to practice their own religion isn't good enough, they have to go out and make everyone else follow their religious practices.

 

People would not be allowed to make persuasive arguments in the system you are describing; they would only be allowed to state their desires.

"Do you want to go on a date?" "Why do you ask?" "BECaUSE I WANT TO **** YOU!!!"



To my mind, arguing persuasively is not lying.

I agree that if one person wants to talk about states' rights, and another person wants to talk about [insert issue here], then there will not be a lot of headway made; however, I do not think that we should put the blame on conservatives for this, since both discussions, in point of fact, are worth having. One is not more important than the other, and a conservative could ask, with good reason, "why don't liberals want to talk about states' rights?" Of course the answer to this question is that the argument about states' rights doesn't help their cause, so of course they don't want to talk about it...

 

When "States' rights" becomes the basis for any one state to legislate morality and be kept in a sociological dark age, don't you think the federal government has an obligation to step in and say, "You guys are are backwards asshats?" in a manner of speaking? I mean, I guess I can see the whole "Keep them flat-footed goombahs in Warshington out of my hair" argument, but like Texas has proved recently, when they need Federal assistance, they're going to be the first to whine when they don't get it.

As a nation, we need to realize...all of us...that there are certain things reality won't let us back away from.

 

That could've been phrased better. My apologies if it came off as something rambling and incoherent.

Edit: I meant my post, not Tracy's.

 

Total honesty is a bad thing. Mostly because it lets the ugly out and most of us have ugly thoughts on a daily basis and if you let all that out then we'd likely all be killing each other. Don't mistake this for me saying honesty is a bad thing, I love honesty, but it's a bother in interpersonal relationships a lot of the time. And yes, that includes marriages, relationships, and friendships. I think why people have a problem when the GOP does it is not so much the lie, but because their lies are so blatant, often, and so very transparent. Most people have no problem if you lie to them and it's convincing.

 

This is Louie Gohmert, a Texas congressman and probably the dumbest person in all of Congress (big title considering some of the hillbillies from Arkansas and Louisiana).. He was recently quoted saying how "the Obama administration is infiltrated with members of the Muslim brotherhood." He also says Obama is soft on terrorism.

Another one of his gems is when he said "the caribou could use the pipeline for warmth." and that the Colorado shooter did what he did not due to mental illness but because "he didn't have a fear of a vengeful, unforgiving god."

Now multiply this many by many others and these makeup a big portion of our congress. These are the GOP lawmakers in a nutshell.

 

Well, someone needs to fill the role previously held by Joe McCarthy and Allen West.

 

I can give you a laundry list of republican senators and representatives that are in the House and Congress that are absolutely ruining our country.. If you notice they almost all come from backwater hillbilly states, Georgia, South Carolina, Tenseness, Louisiana, Arkansas, Texas. All states where the majority is still wishing it was the early 1900's...

a bunch of religious fanatics, anti intellectual and anti science, bible thumping war mongers... To think our country cant move ahead because of their voting block...

 

heres another republican gem, Steve Stockman, the man has been quoted as saying "The best thing about the Earth is if you poke holes in it oil and gas come out." and "There is reportedly $1 trillion in oil off the coast of California. But liberal hatred of science and human progress keeps them bankrupt"

this man is the epitomy of anti science... We should know the faces of the men and women who are destroying America.

The democrats aren't the best on earth but nothing compares to the bat crap craziness of the far religious right.

 

Now we have Louisiana senator David Vitter, the prostitute loving man who doesn't shut up about Jesus and how GOD and church must be used to have values and morals.. Hes also against sick children getting any type of health care.. Yet the inbreds from Louisiana love this man even though hes the opposite of everything he "stands" for..

The south for the majority has no business in politics. The people and their representatives are all completely useless.. I say let the south secede when they petitioned the 26 states that wanted to after Obama was re elected...

 

My moral reasoning against abortion is not a religious one. If I were an atheist, I would still be ardently anti-abortion (and anti-death penalty and anti-war, as I am now).

Most other people I know who are pro-life do not use religious terminology or language or scripture to articulate and support their opposition to abortion.

 

I would like if you could post a picture and some funny quips about the illustrious Virginia Foxx...

here ill post another



Here we go folks, up next, the wonderful Steve King, hailing from the useless state of Iowa, the state that's name is only mentioned when speaking on horrible places to live and places no one has ever been to on vacation before..

This man is for dog fighting and made salacious claims that the boston bombers were foreign nationalists and completely against gay marriage...

Keep em coming useless states, so far we have Iowa, Louisiana, and Texas. That's only the tip of the iceberg

 

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/senate-guidelines.50009127/

 

the people who are against abortion are the same nut bags who don't give 2 craps about your baby once its born.. It could die of hunger for most care but as long as its not killed in the womb 1 month in when its still chewing gum...

That's the rational of most anti abortion nuts...

and lets be real isn't Honey Boo Boo the poster child for the pro abortion side.