Discussion Luke Skywalker as the Master Jedi

Luke learn about the force pretty quickly and made even greater strides being trained by Yoda. How strong do you feel Luke be as a Jedi Master after 30 years of studying the force? I think he should be his own Jedi somewhere Between Obi-wan and Yoda. He has been learning and experiencing the force on his own for the past 30 years. It's pretty clear he should develop differently from all the others.

 

I want him to have the power and wisdom of Yoda, the field expertise and cunning of Obi-Wan, and all the potential that his father Anakin once had, all plus his own Lukey Lukeness.

 

Lukey Lukenss! I like that!

 

Better than Aunt Beru's lukewarm blue milk, at least ^_^

 

Luke was already wiser than Yoda or Obi-Wan by the end of ROTJ in many ways. He has an optimistic and a compassionate manner that the old stern Jedi lacked. The PT Jedi he is most like is Qui-Gon, IMO. I think he will be a Master quite different than the ones before him.

 

I guess the EU is out of the question?

 

If you were a Jedi you would be turned in no time.

All it takes is one little compromise like the one Qui-Gon made when allowing his emotions to influence his decision in training Anakin.
Then he died and Obi-Wan made the same compromise due to an emotional attachment to Qui-gon who's wishes were for Anakin to be trained.
And ofcourse Anakin developed as expected, way too emotional for a Jedi. This led him to compromise the Jedi way big time in taking a wife and forming a strong emotional bond.

This strong emotional bond led to Anakin developing fear of losing Padme. And as Yoda told us and as we saw... fear leads to hate... hate leads to the dark side.

Just because the ST portrayed these events poorly doesn't discredit their authenticity to the original story. It was always in the original story as to what corrupted the Star Wars universe (and Anakin).

Jedi must severe their emotional dependencies to be true clear minded Jedi as they are supposed to be. It is the Sith who encourage the use of emotion as you are doing.

If Qui-Gon were as wise as Yoda then there never would have been a Galactic Empire.

 

I feel like Luke already surpassed Obi-Wan, Mace and even Yoda when he stood up to the Emperor. He conquered the Dark Side, and helped his father see the light - which Obi-Wan and Yoda thought impossible. He also bested Anakin in a duel even with his minimal training (And no actual lightsaber training...)

He should be the most powerful Jedi ever.

 

Hey OP i think you are not familiar with what George Lucas said about this issue. Luke becomes what Anaking shiould have been, the most powerful jedi of all time.
GL said that Luke would be 200% more powerful then Sidious.Also in canon he is the greatest dualist who ever lived.And he also is these things in the EU books that
takes place after ROTJ. So your poll is way off sry I think you will see this in epi VII. Only luke and leias kids have the force potential that luke/leia have.

This is what GL said.
Vader was 80% of what Sidious was after Mustafar dual.After that dual Vader could not longer become the super sith he could have been(GL used those words super btw)
That why he wanted luke to take over because luke would become what vader could no longer be.

 

He was able to do what Yoda failed to do because he was Anakins son which sparked something in him.

He may have been more powerful than Ben, Mace or Yoda... but he was not wiser.
Power and wisdom have been confirmed to be separate uncorrelated qualities in the SW canon.

 

Well, sure. But if it's going to be 30 years or so after Return of the Jedi, he's probably a far wiser man than he was then.

 

Now perhaps yeah. But we were talking about when he overthrew the emperor.

I'd like to think he hasn't surpassed Yoda's wisdom but perhaps at best matched it by Ep7. A huge feat in itself given Yoda's age.

He should definitely be the most powerful Jedi to have ever lived by now though if he wasn't already.

 

I want him to have the strength of a rancor, the grace of an aiwha, the culinary skills of Aunt Beru, Salacious Crumb's love of life and laughter, and the gentle touch of an Ewok mother.

 

Hopefully Abrams and Disney would do away with this nonsense philosophy. Repressing your own emotions too much leads to all kinds of mental health problems and detachment from what drives normal people. It is no surprise they couldn't see through Palpatines paperthin disguise. Better is to allow oneself emotions and learn to deal properly with them. If only Anakin were taught this.

 

Actually it's entirely different to repressing your emotions. It's based part of the bhuddist/other east asian philosophy where they regard emotion as getting in the way of spiritual development and teach themselves to be in control of and separate of their emotions.
Incidentally it is very similar to what is practised in modern psychology these days. Definitely not bad for your mental health.

I'm definitely not into any of that spiritual or buddhist stuff, but you have to give it credit for behind a few millennia ahead of modern western psychology.

Either way, it's part of the essence of Star Wars and should not be removed entirely.

However you could argue that Lucas was trying to show that strong emotion can be good as well when Luke followed his emotions in leaving Dagobah to save his friends and did so as well as saving the galaxy later emotions and all.
Maybe creating a less monk like Jedi order will be Luke's legacy.

 

Luke didn't have the responsibility of Yoda or Obi Wan. I don't know why it's so fashionable to put down the Prequel-era Jedi. They weren't so bad. They failed in some ways in regards to Palpatine and Anakin. They weren't perfect. But I think it's a stretch to say Luke had more compassion than Yoda or Obi Wan. He just had a different path, and therefore a different point of view. His was a path unencumbered by the weight of upholding the Jedi order. But if he rebuilds it, that could all change.

 

Last I checked Luke never used a slave army.

That's not what the Jedi taught in the movies.
No psychologist ever would tell you not to make friends or have relationships of any kind. Those with anger management issues are often told, for instance, to seek out other ways to live their emotions, like sports or art.

I'm not going to make any assumptions on Buddhism, but I think it will probably involve much more complex philosophy than that presented in a fantasy movie.

Lol, that claim is completely subjective.

I don't go around spouting that positivism is better than every other philosophy even if I am a positivist.

This is more like it.

 

Well, I am into Buddhism. And not all Buddhist schools see emotion as an impediment. Some, especially the tantric Buddhists, have practices that are based in harnessing the emotions for the pursuit of spiritual development. This doesn't mean recklessly indulging in rash emotions, just using the energy of them in a directed way for specific aims. It still takes a great deal of discipline. Maybe they will go the tantric route with Luke's relationship to the force. And hopefully Luke has learned much more discipline than he showed in the original trilogy. Because even though things worked out for him, it could have gone horribly wrong too. He just managed to walk the tightrope well.

 

Wise he will be.....

 

Sorry I didn't make myself clear. Modern psychology certainly does not tell you not to have strong relationships!
But it does teach you to separate your cerebral thought from your emotions so that you are able to observe and appreciate them without being your emotion. i.e. you observe yourself feeling the emotion of anger instead of being angry.
Apparently practising this leads to much better emotional control.

The part about avoiding strong emotional bonds is something reserved for Monks who's only goal in life is to reach spiritual enlightenment.
Normal people who's goal in life is to be happy ofcourse must embrace their emotions.
But the Jedi are not supposed to be living for their own happyness.

For monks, emotions being a distraction means that they need to avoid strong bonds that cause them.
It makes sense that a Jedi would take on a similar philosophy since they need to avoid strong emotions too, else risk being tempted to the dark side like Anakin was.

Like I alluded to above, emotion can only be seen as an impediment if your ultimate goal in life is something other than attaining happiness.:
Like a Buddhist monk or a Jedi.
(Buddhists live for spiritual enlightenment and Jedi live selflessly for others. Both of these goals are interfered with by allowing strong emotions).

For a normal person you would have to be very very stupid to practice it.

Agree with the rest of what you said.

 

And the Jedi were initially supposed to be knights, not monks. Their order is not primarily about seeking spiritual enlightenment but rather about going outside and helping people, using the power of the force to do so. Traditionally knights were allowed to marry and have friendships, no problem.

That's alright but now you should explain why the new Jedi should act like monks when they are, in fact, an order of knights having the responsibilities of knights. We've seen how bad their monk-like philosophy worked during the PT. I'd think Luke would try to avoid the mistakes of his predecessors.

 

So how Strong do you think Luke would be?

 

Luke doesn't know about his predecessors only Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin. Which they really didn't tell him much about, Now if by some chance he's gotton hold of a Holocron!

 

Jedi were never solely based on knights.
They borrow aspects of at at least two things from human history. More like a futuristic blend of Knights, Monks and maybe more.

The PT collapse of the Jedi was caused by a compromise of the monk-like philosophy started by Qui-Gon. Not because of it.

 

They do knight things, use knight weapons, have a knight code and are even called Jedi knights. If it looks like a duck, squawks like a duck...

I disagree. All the navel gazing made the Jedi miss what is in front of their faces. They were so detached from reality that they would even lead a slave army into battle willingly, not understanding how it would corrupt themselves and the Republic.

Anakins fall was actually only one factor in their downfall. Palpatine could've executed his plan completely without Anakins help.