main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit Pet Characters

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Sinrebirth , May 10, 2013.

  1. AdmiralWesJanson

    AdmiralWesJanson Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    Especially after doing it by Klingon Promotion. And she was Leia's Jedi Master. Pick One- Leia's Master, Grand MAster, or kills off old Grand Master, not all three. Especially since there are a lot of other Jedi who have a ton of seniority on her who could have done some or all of that. How about some of the other inaugural class members that are rarely mentioned for some of those other jobs- Streen, Kirana Ti, Madurrin, Octa Ramis.
     
    GrandMasterKatarn likes this.
  2. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    If I recall, Zahn mentioned that he would have liked the Hand of Judgment to meet Thrawn, but there wasn't any room for him in the story. Thus, Choices of One strikes me as just an excuse to write Thrawn meeting the Hand of Judgment simply because Zahn couldn't shoehorn him into Allegiance.
     
  3. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I don't mind Saba generally, and I'm okay with authors using their own favorite characters more than others -- that's just how it works. But some are better about it than others. The problem is that too much stuff is adding up around Saba, and the execution is bad.

    Saba gets to be Leia's Jedi Master? Okay, fine -- it's a left-field choice and it works as such, and gives us a fun dynamic. That's one that works, and I like it.

    Saba gives Mara's eulogy because she's Mara's best friend now? Look, pick one, Leia or Mara, but she doesn't get to be every female Skywalker-Solo's best friend. She's got no past with Mara -- where is this coming from? Corran, her compadre from the first Jedi class and the husband of one of her good friends, isn't close enough? Kyle, her first Jedi Master, isn't close enough? There's a line, and that crossed it -- you can use your pet character, but you can't let your pet character hog every spotlight in an ensemble, especially not when there are multiple other characters established as more suitable for that spotlight. Allston, for example, loves Corran -- but he doesn't overuse him. He uses him where he's appropriate, he often uses him when he has an option, but he's also made points of highlighting Kyle, Octa Ramis, Kyp, and other Jedi where appropriate. He doesn't force Corran into the spotlight all the time. He gets it.

    And then, Saba kills Kenth. Which is fine, as far as it goes -- some character has to do that, idiocy of the idea and the execution aside. That's a situation where you can stick your character in, and that's just how it works. But for that character to then have Leia and Corran come to her and beg her to take over leadership of the Jedi because she's the only one who can do it, and she doesn't even know how great and how right she is for this position? That's goin' overboard, mate! You can't kill the interim Jedi leader and then be appointed the next leader. It's completely unsuitable for that to happen -- you have to promote someone untainted, and the Order is full of fine prospects. Kyp, Kyle, Cilghal, Kam, using the opportunity to beg Leia to join the Council and be their point woman with the GA -- all would have made sense. Yet Saba, who's just tainted herself out of the job, not only gets the job, she gets major characters pleading with her to take it, telling her how awesome and amazing she is. She then proceeds to become not just the leader of the Jedi, but the leader of the galaxy. It's just too much. Too much favoritism, no execution, no ability to spread the focus around on the multiple well-developed figures on the Council.

    It's not that Denning gives his character more focus -- everyone does that, more or less -- it's that he gives her way too much focus, all the time, and does it badly.
     
  4. JediMara77

    JediMara77 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2004
    But it was so artistically done.
     
    Lady_Misty, TrakNar and Draconarius like this.
  5. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Loving Tyrant of SWTV, Lit, & Collecting star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
    To be fair to Denning, it's not completely out of nowhere. There's a very specific line in Dark Nest where Ben refers to Saba as one of Mara's best friend, and indeed their interactions in that trilogy suggest an deep and mutual friendship. And that's part of my major gripe with Saba in DN- everyone thinks she's a great person, and when people point out her Barabel oddities to her, she acts like they're the weird ones, 'cause there's no way Saba can be wrong. I mean, I get that Denning is trying to show such a radically different-thinking species to us through her, but he couldn't have been more blatantly obvious and in-your-face about it.
     
    Draconarius and kataja like this.
  6. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Yeah, I agree about Saba giving Mara's eulogy, especially since it would have been an opportunity to give Kyle some much needed connection and characterisation.

    And I've already recused myself from detailed comments on the Kenth situation, save I've rationalised myself out of weirder crap, so I'll see how I feel when I read it.
     
    GrandMasterKatarn and kataja like this.
  7. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Add that she is also one of the select few that gets to kill an Abeloth as well in Apocalypse. All these things just add up way to fast.

    There are certainly others. Thrawn and Mara certainly are for Zahn, Mandalorians in general for Traviss, Corran for Stackpole.

    Saba & the Mandalorians I'm in agreement with, but some of the others not so much. Kyp Durron hasn't really had a role since the middle of the NJO, Tarfang & Jae Jung have only gotten one appearance in the last six novels that Denning wrote. I think his novels would actually be better with more of those two, not less.

    Ewok pilots I guess I can't really comment on as I haven't read Mercy Kill, but they never came across to me as a problem the way some of the others did.
     
  8. beccatoria

    beccatoria Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 8, 2006
    There's no Ewok pilot in Mercy Kill. It's an indirect mention - we see a chair in a cockpit that probably belongs to Kolot, but it's not even explicitly stated to be his. It's just an easter egg for fans.
     
  9. Jae-Dec

    Jae-Dec Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 20, 2013
    The most put off I have ever been with a character, had to be Jaina in FOTJ. Seemed like every chapter that mentioned her always had to include her being the Sword of the Jedi. Even when she was the one doing the dialogue, she would constantly refer to herself in this way. Really got to the point where you just wanted to yell at the book, "Ok, we got it you are the Sword of the Jedi, good for you!"
     
  10. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    Tyber Zhan. Sure, it was just one appearance, but he spent that whole appearance beating canon characters at their own games, stealing all the best toys, and laughing about how easy it was for someone as cool as him.

    I have to disagree about Outbound flight and Thrawn - at the end of the day, he underestimated the Jedi despite everyone and their dog warning him not to, which lead to his plan falling to pieces at great personal cost to Thrawn.
     
    RC-1991 likes this.
  11. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    That ending with Thrawn getting what was coming to him was certainly very satisfying after the book paraded him around on a pedestal.
     
  12. Slash78

    Slash78 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2004
    What's funny is that's usually what happens.
     
  13. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Serves him right. :p
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  14. FatSmel

    FatSmel Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 2012
    I never had problem with pet characters, as long as it doesn't detract from the story. Saba is fine, she does a lot of stuff, so what? not as much as Luke, Leia etc so it's not unbelievable. And she's interesting.

    But when it gets in the way of story-telling *cough*KarenTravis*cough*, then it's a problem
     
    darth fluffy likes this.
  15. General Immodet

    General Immodet Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Boba Fett?
    Why don't they ever use Zuckuss or 4-LOM?
     
    Lady_Misty, TrakNar and Gorefiend like this.
  16. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Or Bossk, as he seems to actually have killed more people then Boba per his background.
     
    Lady_Misty and General Immodet like this.
  17. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Last time we saw Bossk was in the NJO wasn't it? No idea about Zuckuss or 4-LOM.
     
    General Immodet likes this.
  18. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Zuckuss is apparently in an insane asylum (I can’t blame him, I nearly ended there after reading the Bounty Hunter Triology) and 4-LOM had his personality wiped during a rebuild and yep NJO was the last time Bossk showed up, either the NJO Sourcebook or one of the Essential Guides mentioned that he had moved on to training young Trandoshan Hunters, though would still sometimes take jobs.
     
  19. Loopy777

    Loopy777 Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 8, 2013
    So who were George's pet characters? I think Luke started out that way, but then Vader's popularity turned him into George's all-time pet character.

    Also, R2.
     
  20. Darth_Arapsis

    Darth_Arapsis Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    May 21, 2013
  21. General Immodet

    General Immodet Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Apparently, the fans did not like Zuckuss and 4-LOM as much as the other bounty hunters. I never got why.
    Everyone loves Fett, IG-88 and Bossk. Zuckuss and 4-LOM have gotten more and more forgotten over the years.
     
  22. Robimus

    Robimus Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Technically the last time we saw Bossk was Season 4 of TCW, so like a year and a bit ago. Not timeline wise of course, but still.
     
  23. TrakNar

    TrakNar Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2011
    I like Zuckuss and 4-LOM... :(
     
    Gorefiend likes this.
  24. DarthJenari

    DarthJenari Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 17, 2011
    I don't know if i'd call Luke a pet character, as both Han and Leia always received a steady amount of focus as well. Their story was never neglected in favor of his, yet it was still his story lol he was the "hero" of the arc after all. Same goes with Vader even in the PT in my mind. It was all about the fall of the Jedi Order and such, and how things got to where they were in ANH. Of course he was going to play a major role.

    R2 and C-3PO seem more like pet characters to me and Ahsoka was definitely one for TCW.
     
    kataja likes this.
  25. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    "Warmaster, we think too often in terms of dualism: Jedi or Sith, light or dark, right or wrong. But there are also a point to this blade. The point is Tyber Zhan. All three care nothing for caste or species, only adherence to a code that unites. Tyber Zhan remain the most formidable enemy of the Empire, he even worshiped corruption itself. You might begin to understand him one day."