PT Sith Exposed: Evacuation of the Jedi Temple/Warning to the Jedi

The CIS is a government. It spanned thousands of systems, so no, there was no direct location where "the CIS was". Militaries have their own private communication channels. It is nothing like law enforcement monitoring individuals. Dooku is a Sith Lord, not even Yoda could defeat him, not only is putting a tracker on him a suicide mission but he would also sense it through the Force.

The Sith have existed for millennia, plenty of history buff probably know about them. And who did Palpatine tell Anakin to kill in the theatre?

They didn't have the authority to arrest Palpatine, as he said "I am the Senate." How would the Jedi covertly take blood samples from the..let's estimate here..100 000 Senators (if not more) in the Senate?

1. If you followed the plot of AOTC and ROTS you know that at that point the Republic is basically a dictatorship, Palpatine ran the government and his word was law, no matter how many voted against him. So they would have to go to him and convince him to convict himself.
2. What evidence?
3. How do you know they rushed? Mace Windu walks at a pretty calm pace after Anakin gives him the news, and clearly gathers some other Jedi Masters before he goes in. In the novel he even confers with Yoda and decided it's the best course of action.
4. How many Jedi would have sufficed? Clearly they were trying to keep the operation under wraps. An army of Jedi storming the Senate would not have looked to good on them.
5. Good point
6. I don't know what your referring to. But for the last 3 years they had been in a war.
7. But clearly Windu intended to kill him. "He's too dangerous to be left alive."
8. No he doesn't. The Sith are destroyed and the Republic transitions back into democracy.
9. They correctly assumed he would not go quietly and protected the lives of others by doing so.
10. Why would he have to submit to an arrest? It might go like this:
Windu: "We must arrest you Supreme Chancellor, on the charge of being a Sith Lord."
Palpatine: "No I'm not."
Anakin: You never said it to me explicitly but you know a lot about the dark side.
Palpatine: I read that in a book. This is ridiculous.
They had absolutely NO hard evidence against him. Not to mention they would be charging him for suspicion of being part of a different Force religion.

#5 is the only point you made there that is reasonable. But you've got 30 right so keep going.

 

So you expected their train of thought to be..why Naboo..there is a Senator called Palpatine from Naboo..the Sith have reappeared..this Senator Palpatine must be a Sith Lord..??

 

Who would the Jedi question? Darth Maul? He's dead. The Trade Federation does not know that Palpatine is Sidious and, furthermore, there's no indication that the Jedi would have been given the go-ahead to question them. Given that Nute Gunray got away with no criminal prosecution (still being Viceroy of the Trade Federation and all), I think it's safe to say that their options there would have been limited.

What exactly connects Palpatine to the Sith as of TPM? He's the Senator from Naboo and that planet was invaded. So? What exactly ties him to the Sith? He was made Chancellor, but this is (seemingly) only possible through Padmé's vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum. This apparently would not have been possible had the Trade Federation's plan worked as they would have kept the Queen on Naboo to sign the treaty.

You have very little evidence linking Palpatine to the Sith as of TPM. At least, little that is available to the Jedi, especially due to political constraints.

 

Thanks for not providing any arguments or evidence but just making claims.

These soldiers are clones. Millions of them. Are you suggesting that each and every clone was taught Order 1-66-? after Kamino and memorized each one as to be able to execute it without further instruction?

Because I think the much more reasonable to assume that it was a preprogrammed order established when they were still at Kamino.

Of course, if you still insist on the above it would make even less sense that the Jedi didn't know of Order 66.

Either way, it doesn't matter. The Jedi knew that they were vulnerable. They knew that the Chancellor could take them out and Mace even sensed it.

Any sensible person/organization would have taken precautions to safeguard the Jedi at the Temple and across the galaxy.

I hate how the Jedi are made to be complete morons so Palpatine's plot could work. Bad storytelling.

 

The Nemoidians aren't dead. In fact, they are in custody.

No, but they have direct comoonication with Sidious, the surviving Sith Lord.

And he's a politician. And he used the crisis to get himself elected chancellor. In all galaxies it is wise to remember the machinations of politicians, and how there are always ulterior motives.

His planet was blockaded and the Sith chose to insert themselves into this event after being hidden for 1,000 years. It should raise red flags. Big red flags.

That could be the bad writing talking as the plan doesn't really make sense anyway, but let's say she did sign the treaty, Palpatine could play it up that way that he would be Senator in exile and his planet is occupied.

 

Yes, but the Jedi must be allowed to question them (which they might not be). Don't forget that the Trade Federation still has a Senator in the Republic and it was the Supreme Court that largely handled the prosecution of Nute Gunray and company. Per AOTC, they didn't face many criminal penalties it would seem.

True, but that doesn't mean they know anything useful. They don't know who Sidious really is. And there's no guarantee that they would even talk. Their fear of Sidious likely outstrips their fear of the Jedi and they probably expect the Sith Lord to bail them out. They certainly don't seem to have suffered for their service to him (from what we see in AOTC). The Jedi are constrained by laws and their own principles. Sidious isn't.

Again, though, there's no evidence. You might as well claim that Padmé is the Sith Lord who engineered the attack in order to make herself a war hero. Or Or Jar Jar had the TF invade in order to bring the Gungans and humans of Naboo together. Palpatine may have benefitted from the crisis, but it was in an indirect way that's not directly traceable, given that it depends on a lot of variables. One of them, of course, is that Padmé would be willing to call for the vote of no confidence. Another is that he would be nominated and then win.

And? How does that make him any more suspicious than, say, any of the human backers of the Trade Federation (who seem to have much more to gain from the blockade)?

No, the plan makes sense, but it didn't work the way Palpatine had intended. Padmé wasn't supposed to get away, but he adapted and made it work. But there, again, isn't any direct evidence linking him. You have to consider, the Jedi would essentially be accusing this man of allowing his planet to be invaded and his people starved in order to advance his own political career. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the Jedi have not a shred of that. At best, they have random speculation, but they certainly can't go and accuse the democratically elected head of the Senate (the body they swore allegiance to) of being a Sith Lord without significant proof.

 

By that logic every politician from Naboo is a Sith Lord.

 

How would the Jedi get a midichlorian count on Palpatine anyhow?

"Hey, Chancellor, we think you might be a Sith Lord, so we're just going to ask you for a blood sample. It'll be painless . . . we promise."

There is no way the Jedi could have know Palpatine = Sidious, because no one knew he was (who was alive, anyhow) and why would they suspect him if he hadn't done anything suspicious yet (bringing up the vote here, which seems like a legitimate political move).

 

Let's see:

-The reason why the Jedi couldn't find answers to the questions surrounding the Sith's return and the Naboo invasion plot is because Count Dooku withheld information from them. When Dooku was still a Jedi, he learned everything about Darth Sidious from Nute Gunray but instead of passing the information to the Jedi Council, he decides to leave the Jedi Order, turn to the dark side, and conspire with PalpSidious to start a separatist movement. The Jedi actually DID investigate events on Naboo but due to Dooku's betrayal, they were left clueless and what's worse, Nute Gunray escaped criminal prosecution after 4 trials in the supreme court so he gets to retain the position of viceroy of the Trade Federation which means the Jedi can't touch him or other members of the Federation.
-On the events surrounding the assassination attempts against Padme, the Jedi have indeed connected the dots at the end of AOTC which is why they wanted to "keep a closer eye on the senate" like Mace Windu suggested. What the Jedi still don't know is who Darth Sidious is and they didn't have time to figure out who due to being distracted by the Clone Wars. Another thing, even if they want to question the existence of the clone army, they know that the senate will misinterpret those questions as an act of treason leading them to assume that the Jedi are siding with the Separatists. The Jedi can't give the senate the wrong impression about their concerns so they went along with using the clone army.
-As Piettshat mentioned, it's not that simple to monitor PalpSidious' communications from Coruscant since the planet has trillions of people on it. It'll be like doing a computerized version of "Where's Waldo?" and furthermore, the senate will never give the Jedi permission to test every senator's midichlorian count based on frivolous reports of a Sith Lord being among them. The Jedi don't have evidence to back up their reports and plus, it'll take days to secure all the midichlorian counts which gives PalpSidious enough time to falsify his own midichlorian count.
-The Jedi did watch Palpatine by having Anakin spy on him. Unfortunately, Anakin has his head stuck up his own ass to even question how a mere politician like Palpatine would know so much about the Sith nor did he figure out much earlier that Palpatine is the Sith Lord that the Jedi have been hunting since TPM. Palpatine had to spell it out to Anakin that he's Darth Sidious in order for Anakin to inform the Jedi Council while PalpSidious prepares his trap for the Jedi.
-Once Mace is told by Anakin, he had to act fast because he knows that PalpSidious will initiate Order 66 against the Jedi at any time. Mace's attempted coup is NOT brainless because too many lives were at stake but how the hell is he suppose to find evidence??? The only witnesses who know that Palpatine is Darth Sidious are either dead (Count Dooku, Darth Maul) or are hiding in Mustafar (the Separatists). The Mace Windu posse cannot arrest PalpSidious in public because they can't risk endangering innocent bystanders who could get caught in the crossfire of PalpSidious' attacks. The Jedi were screwed no matter what course of action they make.

In closing summary, the Jedi's failures are due to the fact that they mistrusted the wrong people (Anakin) and misplaced their faith in others (Dooku).

 

"The dark side of the force surrounds the chancellor" -- Mace Windu

Test everybody's blood in the senate

 

And what are the odds Palpy would give them a blood test? It's easy to fake something like that if you're all an all-powerful Sith Lord.

And testing everyone's blood in the Senate would make them even more suspicious of the intentions of the Order.

Also, the budget didn't allow for that.

 

They didn't ask for permission when they finally did confront Palpatine. Too late.

They know the Sith are involved in TPM. Do they tell the senate about it? It's not clear. If they do, then get the senate to agree to it voluntarily as a security measure. Anyone who objects is immediately a suspect. See the Cylon blood test in NuGalactica, except they have a test that actually works in the PT.

 

They have at least one undeniable link to the Sith at the end of TPM -- the Nemoidians. The "mystery" is hollow because of this. The fact that they don't leverage this fact is the core of why they are idiots (not even mentioning the lunacy of AOTC's events). It's not even like they didn't know it in-universe -- they DID. And they even had them in custody! If you put pressure on them, everything is unravelled.



After AOTC they have another, Dooku. Do you think if they had monitored his movements they would have found it odd that he was not only communicating with Coruscant but actually visiting there? Wouldn't that be considered weird for the leader of the CIS to be communicating with and visiting Coruscant? Don't you think at a time of war that communications and travel to Coruscant should be tightly monitored?

Then there's Grievous, who is also communicating with Coruscant.

A lot of communication to Coruscant from CIS systems. Isn't that weird? Don't you think that would stand out amongst trillions of people? (Not to mention you would concentrate on people in powerful positions in government, not the entire population). How much comm traffic is coming from these confederate systems? That certainly gives you a good area to concentrate on.

As for who to blood test, start at the core and work your way out. They suspect the Senate is at very least "under the influence of a Sith Lord", so start there and work your way outwards. At very least clear the people at the highest level of government instead of being stupid and doing absolutely nothing. Start eliminating people from suspicion.

Palpatine is only one step ahead because everyone else is an idiot. Face it, you want the illogical house of cards that is Palpatine's plan to stand at any cost, logic be damned.

 

First off, the Jedi DON'T have the Nemoidians because Nute Gunray was never convicted for his crimes against Naboo even after 4 trials in the supreme court. In the real world, when a criminal is found not guilty of whatever charges he face, the courts cannot convict him again for the same crimes which means that the police cannot touch, arrest, nor prosecute that person anymore. The same thing applies to the Jedi when it comes to the Trade Federation and as for Dooku, (as I've said to you before) if he were still a Jedi, then the other Jedi would believe anything he says since he knows more about Darth Sidious then they do but when he joined the Sith, his word means nothing to them since according to Yoda, "Lies, deceit, and creating mistrust are his ways now". Grievous isn't in a talking mood since he likes to cut and run most of the time and furthermore, there is a full planet of people on Coruscant who are communicating with each other daily and it'll be a huge waist of time for the Jedi to pinpoint which communication link connects the Separatists to PalpSidious. Once again, the senate will not give the Jedi permission to give every senator a blood test since they have no evidence to support their report that a Sith Lord is among them and what's worse, the senate has given all power and authority over to PalpSidious so he won't allow the Jedi to start a blood test. Finally, just because PalpSidious knows what the Jedi are planning to do before they do it does NOT make them idiots.

 

The nemoidians are a hard link to the Sith. Don't give up so easily. Spy on them, their movements, their communications.

And they physically had them in custody. In prison. Did they not? They were carted away in handcuffs at the end of TPM.

 

Who is to say the majority would accept such a mystical assessment of the Chancellor's state of being? Would the Jedi be willing to forcibly blood-test each of the Senators? Because that resolution would never pass as long as Palpatine was alive.

 

It's a very simple security measure. They are looking for a Sith Lord (but don't tip their hands entirely). They have a way to test for it. Like taking fingerprints or photo ID in the real world.

 

So the Jedi Order should force their religious opinions upon every Senator by requiring them to submit to blood testing, just because one Master claimed that the dark side of the force was surrounding the Chancellor? Makes the Jedi sound like dictators, not guardians of peace and justice.

 

How would the Jedi get a midichlorian count on Palpatine anyhow?

"Hey, Chancellor, we think you might be a Sith Lord, so we're just going to ask you for a blood sample. It'll be painless . . . we promise."

 

All it will say is "This person has a very high midi-chlorian count".

If you take the view that people don't have to hand their children over to the Jedi after they test high, then it's not actually something incriminating.

 

It`s offensive and evasive. It`s the equivalent of doing a DNA test to find out if someone in the U.S. Senate is from a Muslim country cuz your hunting terrorists. It`s unconstitutional.