Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Ah, found it again. I found this online when our discussion of the Assertor-class Star Dreadough first began. This should help put our weaponry discussion into a more visual context.

 

Well in real-life, large scale surface battles didn't occur often because you almost never have two opponents of roughly equal strength. In general a larger fleet will always crush a smaller fleet, so that creates an incentive to concentrate all your capital ships in one area lest you send one or two out on a mission and they get picked off by the enemy. So eventually your battle fleet consists of your entire navy's capital ships, and if you've got fewer capital ships than your enemy then you basically never go out to fight...unless it's to try to pick off one or two (or more) enemy capital ships that have been detached from their main force. And that's basically what Jutland was about.

Not sure how much this dynamic might play out in the SW universe though, as there's a much more vast area for a fleet to protect.

 

With SW being the visual medium that it is, it gets stale to rely on the same "cheats" for solving a big (no pun intended) problem like a large, imposing capital ship. Other space operas manage just fine to combine large fleet engagements and solo missions, while keeping both dynamics interesting in the long run. SW usually goes with "two fleet slug out at point-blank range, even though point-blank range combat was implied in ROTJ to be rare" and in the CW era, rapidly switches perspectives to ground combat again and again.

The Umbara arc literally opened with a fleet battle that was shoved out of the way to make way for the story on the ground. Though the same arc had an interesting little man's perspective later on, with the infiltration of the supply ship during the heat of battle. Although said battle had the baffling absence of Republic presence barring a few starfighters.

 

This was everything I was able to dig up on the Assertor-class Star Dreadnought:

 

Fair points, and again not saying it couldn't or shouldn't happen just feel its been over played theme in Star Wars stories. I'll take a massive space battle over a sabotage mission any day.

 

Sadly ships just slugging it out only has so much appeal, though funny thing is the two times it actually happens in the SW movies it is pretty much told from the POV of fighter pilotes. The Battle of Endor largly seen through the eyes of Lando and Wedge, whilst the one in ROTS is Obi-Wan and Vader flying those ugly Jedi Interceptor things.

 

I can only dream of a Weber SW capital ships punch-up....

 

You haven't seen a capital ship punch-up until you've seen a Macross series. There the ships occasionally literally punch each other! Mainly because the ships transform into humanoid forms for battle. Which would be a bit much for Star Wars (though could be cool).

Yeah, too bad we don't see capital ships mixing it up much, except as background mostly. At least the Battle of Endor had capital ships engaging at point-blank range, but then the Imperial fleet had been told to hold back and mainly keep the Rebel fleet from escaping too. The RotS Battle of Coruscant, which huge in scope, was still mainly background. And still kind of annoyed that the Confederacy had like five types of ships while the Republic only had the Venator. Well, whenever they get around to releasing the next version of Episode III, they might take the Lucrehulk battleships out, unless by then the Trade Federation has officially joined the Confederacy, you never know what they'll come up with next.

Although that's another reason why I like KotOR's ending, as it has the Republic fleet engaging Darth Malak's fleet. Heck, I think Bioware recycled it for ME1. ME2 had the Normandy vs. Collector ship, but ME3's ending was annoying (they spent like half a minute of it focusing on some random fighter pilot instead of the giant brawl going on around him).

There are plenty of capital ship battles we'd love to see, but then again, Star Wars is usually a personal story, focusing on a Jedi or Rebel or something like that. Orinda is always near the top of most people's wish lists, although the Victory Fleet vs. Bulwarks during Clone Wars has also sounded intriguing. I know I read about it in the New Essential Chronology (I think), but that hasn't ever been covered anywhere else, has it? With Lucasfilm's obsession about the Clone Wars and neglect or abuse of post-RotJ continuity (mainly they mine it for cool names and not much else), I was hoping it would get a story someday. Well, as long as it wasn't adapted for a TCW arc, then they probably would have put a certain Togruta Padawan in charge instead of a fleet officer like Dodonna.

 

I am more a fighter fan myself, and Star Wars ships lack many of the features that make capital ships battles in other franchises interesting in my opinion (for example, electronic warfare tactics.)
That said, I do wish we got larger scale battles as well. Something like this:


(Battle proper starts at 2:11, sorry that I couldn't find an English version)

Or like this:


Or Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Very large scale fleet battles that never the less had a strong, Star Wars feel.

 

I've brought up LotGH before, it's a very nice space opera (primarily space battle) show that nevertheless focuses on individual characters and large-scale conflicts alike. Part of the reason why the large-scale battles work so well is that we get to see the consequences of each character's decision. There's always several sequences depicting crew members being horribly maimed or killed, sometimes from the mistakes their commanders make.

SW is often too antiseptic and faceless. A sabotage mission might be intense and interesting, but I'll be more impressed with a space battle sequence where the script writers focus on the larger picture and the people being affected by character A switching cables or character B planting a bomb. Maybe that's why I like the Battle of Endor so much, it has a good blend of all elements and in the end, the personal scenes with Luke, Vader and Palpatine have little to no bearing on the actual victory in the battle. They work as character-building moments, but aren't the pivotal events in the battle itself. The Battle of Coruscant, on the other hand, neglects this and focuses only on the personal moments on board the Invisible Hand.

 

They have proven it can be done in Star Wars on the big screen with RotJ, but RotS novelization had that and many of the novels have done it too.

 

What do you think would be needed in a new Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels?

Pics from multiple angles?

History of the use of the ship, and how it performed?

Date of first ship in the class to enter service, and last ship?

 

Imho not really a priority at this point, as we just had the Essential Guide to Warfare.

 

All of it. Certainly nothing that smacks of the usual profiles they pump out for 99 % of profile articles.

"The Imperial-class Star Destroyer was the standard warship in the Galactic Empire."
NO.
Really?
Never would have guessed.


Add things like variants and different models. Gather up all info from 30 years of publishing to do it. That would be an interesting profile. I'm already dreading the profiles on the Sequel Trilogy ships we're inevitably gonna get.

 

I think giving the history of a class for the new ships like the ones in Invasion or Errant might tie the hands of the authors.

 

I can't wait to see what sorts of ships are used in the Sequel Era. I can only hope that they are logical evolutions of the designs seen in the OT.

--Adm. Nick

 

Well, we obviously are in a bit of a dry spell on Fleet Junkie stuff. In the old days, this thread rarely fell from the main page, to say nothing of the top of the main page!

Anyways, to get back on topic, I have been reading a very interesting biography of George Washington and I am seeing some very interesting parallels between the formation/development of the Continental Army and the Alliance Navy. For example, Washington didn't like the idea of regional militias or even regional Continental Lines (ie, regular troops in the army, but grouped by state, such as Massachusetts or Virginia). He wanted a truly continental army that had blended formations. When I read the EGTW and see the portion about Ackbar's efforts to breakup planet, species, or regional specific units into combined navy, I see a lot of similarities. And this was met with some resistance, just like Ackbar faced from Bothan & Corellian units that didn't want to integrate. Not only that, but the more I think about it, the Continentals are really akin to the core Alliance Navy, while the militias are akin to the Rebel Sector Forces. I doubt that this is pure coincidence, as the parallels between the American Revolution and Rebel Alliance are many.

NOTE: I am not trying to say that the British were an evil empire, so I hope my friends from across the pond don't take this to mean that I think the British Empire circa 1776 is anything like the Galactic Empire. I just wanted to throw that out there, to make sure there were no misunderstandings.

--Adm. NIck

 

Thanks to our fellow fleet junkie Gorefiend, we have this awesome shot of the Alliance Fleet from Star Wars #6:





Fantastic stuff. I see two Home One-type MC90 cruisers, which works GREAT for this timeframe. I like the idea of those two vessels being Home One and Independence, which were both active command ships at this time. I think I spy a handful of wingless cruisers, even though per the EGTW these cruisers were not available until closer to Endor. They could be Liberty-type MC80 cruisers, as the side profile is nearly identical. Besides these ships, it is nice to see the medical frigate Redemption, as well a several other unique vessels. Some are still obviously Gallofree designs, while a few remind me vaguely of the Assault Frigate Mk.II.

--Adm. Nick

 

One is indeed named as the Home One in the comic itself and is were Mon Mothma has taken up residence from the look of it, which makes sense as afaik she ran the Rebellion from there.

 

Which Washington biography, Nick?

 

Washington: A Life, by Ron Chernow. Really great biography so far. I am up to late 1776 at this point in the book.

--Adm. Nick

 

I love Chernow's Washington bio. I picked it up back when it was released, after enjoying his biography of Alexander Hamilton. I'd definitely recommend that, too, if you haven't read it already.

 

Bottom Left looks like a Battle Horn or Neutron Star Bulk Cruiser. And very bottom could be an artistic take on the Dauntless cruiser...

 

Was that an Interdictor-class Star Destroyer? Honestly, I've mostly forgotten what happened last issue, but I think it was the Devestator and an Interdictor Star Destroyer emerging from hyperspace.

Still not sure about this series, but this artist is really good at drawing OT-era ships, especially the X-wings (I think we see maneuvering thrusters fire in one panel).

 

Too bad he could not do some for the Warfare Guide.