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JCC God Exists.

Discussion in 'Community' started by Rogue_Ten, Jun 3, 2013.

?

God Exists.

  1. yes

    40.5%
  2. no

    31.7%
  3. nnnnnNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!

    17.5%
  4. dunno

    27.8%
  5. no curr

    4.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    You can always believe in yourself and your ability forge your own destiny, for the most part. When times get tough, I don't pray. I tell myself to suck it up and do what you have to do to make it. Works for me.
     
    jedimikey likes this.
  2. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Besides, it is a proven fact that prayer doesn't actually do anything.

    If what you pray for is a part of God's plan, it will happen even if you didn't pray.
    If what you pray for is not a part of God's plan, it will not happen no matter how hard you pray.

    So this proves that prayer is either redundant or futile; either way, it's useless.
     
  3. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2000
    1) There is, at least, some evidence for the existence of God. It may not be convincing to you, but it is there. For instance, all of the people who have claimed to have experienced God in real and clear ways, over thousands and thousands of years. In order for God to be nonexistent, every single one of those instances must be false. In order for God to be true, only one of those instances need be true. But that's the logic. The evidence is simply the probably billions of people who claim to have experienced God.

    Somehow, I doubt Christians would take "personal experience" as evidence for the veracity of Islam or Buddhism. This is just a terrible argument all around.
     
  4. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2000
    What Plantinga assumes, incorrectly is that the notion of God is capable of providing a grounding for a transcendent morality. Of course it can't, you end up simply with an all-powerful tyrant who will, in the last resort, punish you. (Because the Jews and early Christians were incapable of imagining a moral system not backed by the threat of punishment.
     
  5. Emperor_Billy_Bob

    Emperor_Billy_Bob Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2000
    Moreover, you can turn this argument around quite easily. People have been experiencing transcendental "spiritual" things since the beginning of the human race, and yet only in a rather narrow window of time has that been attributed to Yahweh. Therefore, whatever is causing these experiences is something that can account for Thor, Zeus, Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, etc etc etc.

    It stands to reason that human beings simply have a proclivity for experiencing the world in a spiritual way, and that the content of the system in which that finds expression varies by culture.
     
  6. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
  7. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    So, hear plus soul, how comfortable are you with the process of raping and destroying Germanic, Nordic and Celtic traditions so the empire of Christianity could expand? Was it worth it?
     
  8. hear+soul

    hear+soul Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2004
    First of all, to everyone saying, "yeah but what about other religions" for my experiencing God argument.... I didn't say that proved the Christian God is real above other gods. I have mostly argued for God in general, though I also touched on the veracity of the new testament. But that statement is just about God, whatever religion has him right, being real, generally.

    Man has been experiencing God for thousands and thousands of years. Billions have claimed to have experienced him, some in miraculous ways. Once again, it doesn't matter the religion here, only one of those instances have to be true for God to exist. Statistically, those are good odds. For atheism to be true, every single one of those persons had to be... insane? momentarily delusional? consistently delusional? Entire cultures. The vast majority of the world throughout history has/had to be wrong about what they experienced. All kinds of people in all kinds of times in all kinds of cultures. Their personal experiences. Unintelligent and intelligent, learned and unlearned, scientific minds and philosophical minds even today. Those are bad odds.

    Religion aside.

    Well, of course, those people weren't acting on Christian principles. Were they loving their neighbor? no. While, unfortunately, these actions have pushed people away from Christianity, rightly so, I would submit it is not actual proof against Christianity.

    I posted this before, but this much wiser man, Tim Keller, interviewed by Martin Bashir, addresses this issue exactly. It's 6 minutes and 29 seconds. He points out the best case against this notion: Martin Luther King, Jr.
     
  9. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    If something is real, then it can be experienced by everybody. So yes, every one of those people were under a delusion or hallucination. You might also want to look up the concept of confirmation bias; people who want to experience God will see God in everything.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  10. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    It's not who He is underneath. It's what He does that defines Him.

    God is Batman.
     
  11. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    I didn't even use God in my example.

    How many times has someone claimed to have seen Bigfoot, a UFO/ET, Nessie, or ghosts? Countless times. Are all of those sightings the result of lies or misidentification? Can we take a reasonable stance that all of those beings/phenomena exist because they have many eyewitnesses? I would really like to hear your answer for that.

    The funny thing about God is that in biblical times He (or Jesus) performed many epic miracles seemingly every other week. However, as science and communication have developed you don't hear about these things anymore. Thousands of years ago, people didn't understand nearly as much about the world and communication was heavily reliant on hearsay. Nowadays, if some totally unexplainable grand miracle happened on the other side of the world, most all of us would know about it and see videos/pictures within the hour - or sooner. Our ability to scrutinize is vastly - VASTLY - more advanced now than 2,000+ years ago.
     
  12. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    The number of miracles performed by a deity is strictly related to the level of technology and intelligence in the region where the miracle supposedly occurred.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  13. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    There's a strong relationship, yes.
     
  14. DarthMane2

    DarthMane2 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Ok, so what if people in other religions see more than one god? Like in Hindu or other pagan religions. These people weren't just seeing these multiple deities thousands of years ago. It still happens today. A lot of the old pagan religions still exist. Does that mean there is more than one god?
     
  15. DarthMane2

    DarthMane2 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2003
    when the printing press was invented sightings of dragons reduced dramatically.
     
    timmoishere likes this.
  16. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    That's because around that time the dovahkiin slayed all the dragons and absorbed their souls.
     
  17. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    But then Daenerys managed to hatch three new ones to help her on her quest to reclaim the Iron Throne for the Targaryen line.
     
  18. tom

    tom Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 14, 2004
    i wouldn't call it delusional so much as trying to give a name to something you can't explain. you'll notice these instances have grown far more seldom as we've figured out the actual science behind earthquakes, volcanoes, the northern lights, etc. unless you're talking about a more personal experience of god. "something weird happened in my brain, guess there must be a god". but billions of people have had weird thoughts! um, duh.
     
  19. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    When inventing a god, the most important thing is to claim that it is invisible, inaudible and imperceptible in every way. Otherwise, people will become skeptical when it appears to no one, is silent, and does nothing.
     
  20. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I'm curious to see where Hear will be five years from now. My gut tells me that he will not be as firm of a believer. His faith still has that new car smell to it. Time will tell, I guess.
     
    Rogue_Ten likes this.
  21. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    otoh, who really thought OZK would still be playing at catholocism in the year of our lord 2013?
     
  22. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
    What is OZK? Is that a person here?
     
  23. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
  24. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
  25. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    He was hard core fundamentalist Christian before. What's the next logical step for him? Mormonism? I could also see him dropping out and becoming Amish.
     
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