Saga LEAST favorite SW character

I found Anakin to be the most annoying character. Far more so than JJB. That's not really a criticism of the character or the actor. I just find people like that very annoying.

 

I'll just take Jar Jar off the table, because to me that's obvious. My next least favorite? Ugh, it has to be the singer in the SE scene in Jabba's palace. Ugh, that whole musical number makes me feel embarrassed to be alive.

 

The characters performing away in the back ground would be one thing, but to make it a whole big set piece was a bit of a shocker.

 

I like Crumb too

 

Of the main characters, I find Han (in ESB and ROTJ) to be the most frustrating for me. Not necessarily because he's annoying (although there are some scenes here and there where I find him to be so), but because he's a narrative dead end.

I very much like him in ANH -- where we see him complete an arc. It's not a very complicated arc, but it's still good to see him transition from utterly selfish to helping out and caring for others. This rather falls apart in ESB and ROTJ, though. For the life of me, I just don't understand what his purpose is in those films. As a character, he doesn't really grow because even in the beginning of ESB, he's an out-and-out hero which follows from the end of ANH.

That, and I find his relationship with Leia in ESB extremely problematic. Not to mention that their entire love story is extraneous to the main plot. I also feel that Leia's growth as a character is stunted largely because of Han's presence.

 

I respectfully disagree, Piettshat. I think Han's growth in ANH was the beginning of his arc, but not the end of it. He learned to think beyond himself, and help out the greater good without personal gain. That's true. But ESB continues this story, as he takes the next step by learning to love someone more than he loves himself (he submits to the carbonite without a fight and thinks of Leia's safety first.) In ESB he's making the ultimate sacrifice as he's facing (what appears) an almost certain death. He gives up the fight so that Leia and Chewie might live. Go Han.

In other words: In ANH Han learned to be less selfish. In ESB he learned to be completely self-LESS.

As for ROTJ---nah, yeah. You're mostly right there. Besides officially joining the Alliance, he's pretty much done.

 

PiettsHat Why is the relationship problematic in ESB? I'm reminded of the ESB deleted scene where Han complains that Leia is in the rebellion instead of with him. That was extremely stupid.

 

I realize mine is a very unpopular opinion, but honestly, my least favorite is Obi-Wan

 

Also, I'm not sure how Han stunts Leia's character growth, when he's really responsible for spurring it on in the first place. At least, that's how it has always seemed to me. *shrug* To each their own, I guess....

 

I agree with Yanksfan re Han. In the first act on TESB he saves Luke's ass again and convinces Leia that it's time to get off Hoth. She needs to look out for her own needs at some point. He then attempts to use his contacts to find a safe haven for her, only to be sold out by Lando. Luke's actions in coming back from Dagobah are largely motivated by his debts to Han. You could say Han's fairly pivotal in this film.

The love story isn't up there with Scarlett and Rhett, but I think it's a catalyst for both characters to develop. By the end of TESB Han realises he can't be only about himself, whereas Leia realises she can't be only about others, constantly denying herself. They meet somewhere in the middle of their originally polar viewpoints.

In ROTJ he's fairly extraneous. I'm with Ford in thinking that he should've been killed off.

 

That's cool. Don't worry -- I know I'm in the minority on this one since Han is such a popular character.

I guess, for me, it just often seems that Han's screen time is a little...well...wasted. I thought he demonstrated that he cared more about others than himself very well in ANH when he went back to help Luke blow up the Death Star. And again, in ESB, he stays out the entire night to rescue Luke from the sandstorm. I don't really know that his romance with Leia developed him as a character, then -- it certainly developed the relationship, but not the character (at least in my opinion).

Plus, I've always felt that Han and Chewie were portrayed as friends who would willingly die for another. There was a lot of affection in their bond from what I saw in ANH -- particularly as Chewie acted as a sort of conscience for Han.

This is probably going to be a touch more of a controversial opinion, but I REALLY don't like the way Han and Leia's relationship is portrayed. Han is, quite frankly, rather disrespectful of Leia. And it makes me a bit uneasy that his behavior towards her is so idealized when it's actually rather...well...creepy. I know Anakin gets a lot of flak in AOTC for being a "stalker" (although the worst thing I think he does to Padmé is look at her funny once) but I find Han's behavior much more questionable. He's constantly pressing Leia up against walls, holding her against him when she asks him to stop, and ignoring her objections. The scene where she falls in his lap is particularly bad at this. I don't know...I guess I just don't like the undercurrent of the film that suggests that Han knows what Leia wants more than she herself does. I just wish that his pursuit of Leia was more respectful and that there was more give and take -- with Leia pursuing Han and acting more "aggressively" once in a while.

I'm one of those weird people who doesn't think the "I love you." "I know." exchange is all that great. Han might die, but he won't even tell Leia he loves her? I don't see how his response is romantic or even kind, to be honest.

Plus, Han and Leia's relationship is modeled after Scarlett and Rhett's. And that relationship is extremely dysfunctional, bordering on abusive. And the book plays up this fact. Whereas Han and Leia's doesn't at all, which I think is problematic.

 

Nothing weird about you PH. You argue it well. I think the idea is that Leia inspires Han by being so selfless. She is originally ALL about saving the galaxy and I think that makes him question his own mercenary stance on things. On the other hand, Han triggers something in Leia which forces her to consider her own needs, rather than JUST those of the galaxy. I've always though they balanced each other. The stuff about Han being disrespectful. You have a point there. Indicative of the times I think, unfortunately. "I know" for me works well because it's in character and also typical of us emotionally retarded males. Not necessarily that nice, but realistic!

 

Those are good and fair points. I think some of my frustration with Han isn't necessarily to do with the character himself, but with his portrayal. I'm just not a big fan of the Han/Leia romance (particularly because it isn't necessary to the main plot) and there's a lot of other things I'd like to see addressed. Take Leia for instance -- why not have her deal with the aftermath of Alderaan? Or have her and Han work together to steal the Death Star II plans? Or address her relationship with her father?

Truthfully, following ANH, I feel like Han and Leia kind of get trapped into a romantic sideshow while the plot follows Luke. And I don't really find their parts of the story nearly as interesting as a result.

Sometimes I just feel like there were so many possibilities with Leia's character in particular that could have been addressed, but instead she gets roped into a romance that I don't find particularly healthy. Although, to be fair, Han is much kinder and more respectful of her in ROTJ, so there is that.

 

Personally, I think the idea (in general, not just in SW) that a character should die if they don't have any more development is a seriously flawed one, and I'm not sure why so many people apply it to Han. ROTJ, for better or worse, definitely does place the majority of its emotional focus on Luke and Vader in a way that was less true in the previous films. But no one ever argues that this means Leia, Chewie, or Artoo - who are all just as "extraneous" as Han - should have died. (People do say this for Lando, but I think that's just because we know the idea was considered at one point). And it's not like Han needs to die to "redeem" himself when, as noted, he's already a straight-up good guy by the start of the film.

 

Of the principal characters, Princess Leia certainly. Fisher was the weak link of the original cast, and although her performance improved under Kershner's guidance, she was worse than ever in ROTJ, succeeding only in filling out a bikini. Thankfully, it's no big loss, since Lucas and Kershner didn't bother to give her anything interesting to do, apart from serving as a catalyst for Luke's near-conversion.

Leia may have been a pioneer heroine in the heyday, but the emergence of fierce, layered goddesses like Sigourney Weaver and Linda Hamilton--to say nothing of their spiritual successors--has diminished this rather paper-thin character.

 

See, that is the beauty of the OT movies, cause I enjoyed the Han/Leia story along with Luke's arc of eventually redeeming his father.. Once a SW movie focuses TOO much on one character, you limit your audience, you limit your story, and SW loses what made the original so great: There is a lot going on in this movie, and many characters to follow that all have equal meaning to how it ends.

The Han/Leia relationship gives the OT more heart, as it contrasts nicely with Luke's more staunchly jedi training story. What makes Cloud City so great, is you really care about BOTH stories: Vader's reveal to Luke, and Leia/Lando's attempt to save Han. What went wrong in ROTJ is that Lucas put TOO much focus on Luke/Vader redeeming story, and made the characters like Leia/Han secondary in the grand scheme of things when you take a step back and watch it again.

I am not criticizing your fandom, but fans like you are TOO focused on the Jedi/Sith end of the SW movies, and as I said before you limit your audience and storytelling, because there are fans like me who love the less-Jedi stories like Han/Leia's relationship in the OT, and that's what gives SW such a diverse fanbase. I hope the ST doesn't revolve around just 1 Skywalker kids story arc, as I hope they focus on all the Skywalker kids the same way ANH gave equal time Luke, Leia and Han. It makes the movies more fun, and doesn't force you to accept one specific story and either take it or leave it like Lucas eventually made the saga the 'Tragedy of Darth Vader.'

 

1. The father Followed closely by
2. The son, and
3. The Daughter

Mod edit: The Star Wars TV Forum is over here.

 

Interesting that Han & Leia have even been mentioned in this thread, you'd think it'd be tar & feathers straight away - but although I don't agree with the opinions, I can certainly understand the points being made.

It's also a different way of approaching the topic - rather than naming a character which is just immediately irritating, pointless or poorly executed from the start, there's those that disappointed or simply weren't utilised properly across all the films they were in.

 

Jabba, Anakin and Palpatine.

 

Hmm, Biggs from the OT, the 'stay on target guy' (ANH) and Quinlan Vos' inclusion in TPM

 

That's normally the problem of sequels: how to use all the returning characters who had their purpose in the original movie but don't have anything relevant do to now. I think SW does a pretty good job with most characters: Chewie, R2, C3PO... could've become background characters after the first movie, but they didn't (at least in the OT).

 

Oh, and my vote is Jar-Jar as a primary vote. Bit of a no-brainer, really.

Boba Fett on the disappointment/under-utilised level. Yes, he's this 'man of mystery' in ESB, but given the hype created around him - at the time, not just the post-OT fanboy cult - he certainly failed to deliver in ROTJ, and his fully developed backstory appears to have ended up in GL's trash basket when it came to the PT (hints in Rinzler's Making of ROTS suggest that he may have had some sort of role in Ep III, one which never came to pass).

Again, you can say, "But that what makes him teh awesome, not knwoing", but there's been far too much hype and extrapolation surrounding this character who might just as well have been another Greedo. He's becoming more & more interesting in TCW (haven't seen Season 5 yet), and he might even crop up in Rebels, but when it comes to the movies alone, he's just a surveillance goon & courier. Tracks Han Solo, tells Darth Vader, gets given Han Solo by Darth Vader in paperweight form, delivers to Jabba. Hangs around in Jabba's palace, gets tossed into Sarlaac pit, the end. Hardly badass.

 

Yes, but his complaint was that Solo's arc ended in ANH, and he is right but that is because it was written as a standalone movie. What did he want Lucas to not bring back any of those iconic characters for the sequel because their arcs were finished?

 

No, I think the point was that the story arcs weren't continued satisfactorily enough to justify the presence that they did have.

As I said, I don't believe that to be the case, but I think there is a case to be made that Luke's story arc was continued far more strongly than those of the others - perhaps at the expense of the others.

In response to that, I'd argue that the Han/Leia romance storyline was just as strong (in ESB, at least), it was just something different. Luke is a youth on a journey of discovery, Han & Leia are basically mature adults, so their development would have to go in a different direction. Splitting them all up at the start was clearly a way of making this easier to deal with.

As far as Leia is concerned, what wasn't developed strongly enough was her position as a leader of the Alliance. Whether or not that's important to her role in the OT is a matter of opinion - the introduction of the character of Mon Mothma in ROTJ may well have been a cheap trick to avoid having to force Leia into the role, and the ensuing story complications.

(I'm playing devil's advocate here, I've never had a problem with any of the Big Three, but I think it's worth addressing)

 

Jar Jar just instantly springs to mind - just takes me out of the story completely - he's like a Pokemon (or some such) character inserted into the storyline. And Grievous - he's like a comedy Vader.