Lit SOS: Save Our Skywalker, Luke Skywalker (v3)

There are quite a few Zahn references, but there are just a ton of EU references in general. I imagine he's a Zahn fan: kind of hard to be that into the post-ROTJ EU without being one.

Also, for those who like Luke feats, you'll really enjoy that last fight. He has the fight be so catastrophic that every person in the galaxy with even a slight Force sensitivity can feel it. Some Imperial officers with slight Force sensitivity just fall over dead. Everyone on the planet below, Force sensitive or not, can feel it happening. And, like in the audio drama, the fight is too fast for Leia to follow.

 

Exactly! This is especially true since Jacen has the Skywalker potential

i think people make too much of that scene. Luke took Jacen completely off guard. That is the only reason Jacen was unable to break the hold. To me the scene never really should have been written, it wasn't realistic. But i just saw it that Gaalan was already prepared to counter Luke's force use to pull him down. If he would have tried to counter Luke after Luke had already started to pull him down, he would have not been successful.

 

One thing that stood out. Dune references, and lots of them.

Still- it's good- very Stover-esque in style.

 

DE imo should have been a standalone story instead of a trilogy. If DE2 bugs you right now in execution then EE won't do you any favors with the conclusion.

 

Oh, Empire's End is just awful. Dark Empire II has some bright spots, but I completely agree it was a story best left untold. There really was no better death for Palpatine than being swallowed up by his own arrogance.

 

I still love the comedy potential of the Galaxy Gun, are we sure Sidious wasn't over-compensating for something? Size isn't everything!

 

I never understood why EE was only set for 2 issues

 

MasterSkywalker86:

I don't remember the quote, but that *is* cool that they had that much respect for him.

10 of the Lost Sith? I'd like to think so, but it wasn't written that way for the most part. It was usually written that Luke sort of struggled with 1 or 2. Granted, he was recovering from an injury at times.


Aside of Luke force pushing the rancor though, he should have been doing that far more in the book admittedly.

We definitely agree about that!

Well, it was due to his injuries too. Luke *was* at death's door. I remember that Jaina was very concerned.

Three for Luke and Jaina is a believable number. However, it's not believable that the average Jedi could defeat 10 to 20.
actually 3 for Luke and Jaina is rather low for those two.

The point is though, that Luke isn't an average Jedi. I don't think that a Jedi of normal power would be able to defeat 10 or more.






instantdeath :
So I reread Dark Empire II, and I'm a bit mixed on how I feel Luke is characterized in it. Veitch writes him as very, very single minded; his only priority in the comic is to revive the Jedi, to the point where he, intentionally or not, comes off as somewhat cold to everyone else around him.

I honestly don't remember much about DE II. I think I only read it once, but my general impression was that I didn't like it or Luke's role in it. I honestly don't know why they needed to make a DE II or DEIII. It was bad enough that the Emperor returned in DE I. It was ridiculous to have him keep on returning. Don't get me started on how I feel about the Emperor finally being killed by Han!


I've always felt Luke is a character who genuinely likes people, as individuals, and wouldn't be putting the Jedi so far up on his priorities that he would all but ignore his sister until the last minute.


I completely agree!


Luke simply puts his hand out and Sedriss flies back, disarmed and very humiliated.
Of course, the fact that he was killed by a tree somewhat sours that scene.


Well, at least he didn't have long to be humiliated!

Also on the Dark Empire front: there's a very cool fan novelization of it, called The Test of Wills, that may be worth a look if you're looking for a more introspective look at Dark Empire. Granted, Luke's characterization isn't perfect throughout it, but it does get excellent near the end.

Does the author give the impression that he/she believes that Luke actually fell to the dark side? That would definitely determine whether or not I would be interested in reading it.

One really nice touch that I enjoy is a segment that has Luke, in his mind, dueling with a "dark" version of himself.

I don't think I'd really like this part very much.

There was Luke Skywalker, the simple farmboy from a backwater desert world, the guardian of
the light side of the Force, with all his awe-inspiring power at its fullest. He was a beacon of honesty
and generosity, willing to lay down his own life to save those of his friends. He had come from a
planet with two suns into a galaxy lost in darkness, bringing with him a new hope for freedom. He
had destroyed the Death Star and saved the brave Rebellion against the tyrannical rule of the evil
Empire; he had redeemed the soul of a mighty Dark Lord of the Sith and shattered the Emperor’s
iron grip on the galaxy. The peoples the galaxy had been drowning in the eternal darkness of the
Sith’s reign, and he had brought them light. He was a vision of the future—a new hope—the
return of the Jedi.

I really, really like the above description of Luke though! Thanks for sharing it!


Also, for those who like Luke feats, you'll really enjoy that last fight. He has the fight be so catastrophic that every person in the galaxy with even a slight Force sensitivity can feel it.


This sounds like something Master Skywalker would love! It sounds pretty good to me too!


Looking forward to more of your TFN interview, ID!






JediMatteus:
i think people make too much of that scene. Luke took Jacen completely off guard. That is the only reason Jacen was unable to break the hold.

I don't know if I agree about that, JM. While Jacen might have been surprised to see Luke on his ship, this scene didn't just take place within a few seconds. Luke was there for quite a while. While I could see that Jacen might have been taken off guard initially, it doesn't explain how Luke was able to continue to keep Jacen bolted to his chair, while methodically bringing that chair farther and farther down until Jacen was pretty much on the floor. I don't really think that surprise works as an explanation for Jacen's poor showing against Luke here.

But i just saw it that Gaalan was already prepared to counter Luke's force use to pull him down. If he would have tried to counter Luke after Luke had already started to pull him down, he would have not been successful.

That's possible, I guess. I still don't like that Luke didn't defeat him though.

More later.

 

MasterSkywalker86 :

DE imo should have been a standalone story instead of a trilogy.

I agree!!! DE II and II destroyed Luke and Leia's achievement at the end of DE. It cheapened DE's Triumphant ending.





instantdeath:
Oh, Empire's End is just awful. Dark Empire II has some bright spots, but I completely agree it was a story best left untold. There really was no better death for Palpatine than being swallowed up by his own arrogance.

Exactly!

 

ChildOfWinds

I honestly don't remember much about DE II. I think I only read it once, but my general impression was that I didn't like it or Luke's role in it. I honestly don't know why they needed to make a DE II or DEIII. It was bad enough that the Emperor returned in DE I. It was ridiculous to have him keep on returning. Don't get me started on how I feel about the Emperor finally being killed by Han!

Actually, what happened to Palpatine was worse than Han shooting him. At least Han is a main character, with a name most people can bother to remember. No, his spirit was contained by that floating Jedi with the really long name and no personality.

Empire's End was originally intended to be six issues, and while giving it the space it needed would have helped, I don't think anything would have saved it if that was always the intended ending.


I don't think I'd really like this part very much.

If it means anything, the "battle" I mentioned is purely a metaphorical one, and Luke wins.


Does the author give the impression that he/she believes that Luke actually fell to the dark side? That would definitely determine whether or not I would be interested in reading it.

While he was obviously trying to stay true to the comic, and thus left a lot of it ambiguous, I definitely walked away with the impression that Luke never actually fall. The way he basically sets it up is that Luke has a false cover identity, a metaphorical mask that he projects to the Emperor, and to his friends when they first arrive (the author calls it "the shape"). The danger is in letting that mask become the reality. The "fight" that I mentioned, one clearly meant to mirror the clone fight at the end of The Last Command, was the tipping point, and Luke won, having never gone completely over the edge.

Here's the scene in question.


He had rejected that darkness in himself, but the dark side was not a single all-or-nothing choice; one did not suddenly wake up one morning and choose to be evil. The dark side was a chain made of a million silver links, the result of a myriad tiny choices, piling up one upon another day after day. The choice had to be made constantly, endlessly. The shape would never die until he did.



“No—no, I am not you,” he said, killing his blade. “I will not be you. Not because I can’t, but
because I won’t. I reject you. I choose not to be you today, and I’ll choose not to be you tomorrow, and every day for the rest of my life.”



And the shape froze, his own weapon extinguished. “I won’t go away,” he growled.



“I know you won’t,” answered Luke. “Every day I wake up I will have the choice to be you. And I’ll refuse.”



And Luke smiled at his sister—a genuine smile, full of warmth and love, the smile of a Tatooinian farmboy and not of a shape resembling him.



“Luke,” she said, tears falling freely down her cheeks as she clutched the wound he had given her, her lightsabre laying uselessly on the deck beside her. “Luke, I don’t know what he’s done to you, but it isn’t final. You can still be free. Look into the future, Luke, I know you won’t give in to him. My child— all my children—will be great Jedi, because you will train them. Come home, Luke.”



“I already have,” he said gently, helping her to her feet.



I would have loved for the author to get more into Luke's head while being trained by the Emperor, but we only really get many Luke POV scenes near the end of the novel, so we don't get much of the actual struggle until the very end of it. Then again, it's not really fair to ask for more from something that's purely a labor of love.

 

Define defeat?

Saying that Luke didn't defeat Gaalan is the same as saying that the Empire didn't win the Battle of Hoth.

 

I could see it having coloured his thinking enough to explain his somewhat odd behaviour in later works.

By creating "the shape" he has Started Down The Dark Path, and even if he never goes any further, and is never "consumed" - it will still Forever Dominate His Destiny.

It seems like a good concession to Zahn's portrayal in Hand of Thrawn, without having to count him among the Fallen Jedi.

 

CoW wanted Luke to kill the man, and not let him escape.

 

That fan novel adaption of DE was awesome. I only read the last chapter or so, but it was really well-written, very Stover-esque. Luke is portrayed very well. I wish he was portrayed half as well in The Black Fleet Trilogy or Children of the Jedi. COTJ made me want to cry in any scene Luke was in (so pretty much all of them) because Luke was so depressed...swollen ankle and headache...that I was depressed by the time I finished the book. I mean, really. Reading Luke should make one happy and feeling like the light will always win, not depressed.

 

I suspect that author could do a good job with DE2 and Empire's End. Maybe filling in a bit of background on Brand, Sedriss, and so forth.

 

I don't think that was the only reason at all. You'll also have Revelations where Luke Force pushes a prepared Jacen when his ship gets teared apart by Luke. And Jacen can't resist when he gets knocked into the control panel. Jacen wasn't in Luke's league in terms of mastery of the Force.you can see that in four different scenes when they face off during the course of LotF.

 

instantdeath:
No, his spirit was contained by that floating Jedi with the really long name and no personality.

Yes, I know. Yet another reason why I find it so annoying that Prequel Trilogy Jedi seem to keep popping up all over. Once again one of these PT Jedi manages to diminish Luke. If DE had to exist at all, I really wish it would have ended with DE I, as Luke and Leia were the heroes there who defeated the Emperor with that wall of Light. Why wasn't that sufficient? Why did they bring that silly emperor back yet again? I thought it was a bad enough decision to have him return in DE I in the first place.


If it means anything, the "battle" I mentioned is purely a metaphorical one, and Luke wins.


That's a definite plus!


While he was obviously trying to stay true to the comic, and thus left a lot of it ambiguous, I definitely walked away with the impression that Luke never actually fall. Luke won, having never gone completely over the edge.


I'm really glad to hear that!


He had rejected that darkness in himself, but the dark side was not a single all-or-nothing choice; one did not suddenly wake up one morning and choose to be evil. The dark side was a chain made of a million silver links, the result of a myriad tiny choices, piling up one upon another day after day. The choice had to be made constantly, endlessly. The shape would never die until he did.
“No—no, I am not you,” he said, killing his blade. “I will not be you. Not because I can’t, but
because I won’t. I reject you. I choose not to be you today, and I’ll choose not to be you tomorrow, and every day for the rest of my life.”


That's nicely written. I just wish that it wasn't just Luke that all authors seem to portray as the one who needs to fight the dark side constantly. None of the other Jedi seem to have this problem, and that really annoys me.


“Luke,” she said, tears falling freely down her cheeks as she clutched the wound he had given her, her lightsabre laying uselessly on the deck beside her.


I don't like this though. Luke *didn't* wound his sister at any point. In fact, he didn't fight with her. Leia was the one who opened her blade in DE first. Luke told her he didn't want to fight with her... and he really didn't.

Thanks for posting those pieces from the fan novel! Can you please tell me where I can go to read it?
Did you post a link earlier? If so, I'll go back and look for it in this thread.







Robimus:
ChildOfWinds said: ↑
I still don't like that Luke didn't defeat him though.
Define defeat?


Where there's no question that Luke was the victor in the battle. It seemed like a pretty even fight to me. Yes, Galaan left when Luke was distracted, but he did have those Nightsisters aboard his ship that he needed to take to Kesh. He likely realized that it was possible that he could lose to Luke eventually, so he took off with his prize darksiders, who were the sure things. Yes, it's likely that if the fight had continued, Luke may very well have won. My point though, is that it shouldn't have been such a close battle. Luke should have been able to wipe the floor with one Lost Sith.







Iron_lord:
I could see it having coloured his thinking enough to explain his somewhat odd behaviour in later works.
By creating "the shape" he has Started Down The Dark Path, and even if he never goes any further, and is never "consumed" - it will still Forever Dominate His Destiny.
It seems like a good concession to Zahn's portrayal in Hand of Thrawn, without having to count him among the Fallen Jedi.

Okay, I haven't read this fan novel, but I hope this isn't what the author had in mind. In the first place, why does creating the shape start Luke down the dark path????

Plus, I really, REALLY hate what Zahn had to say about this through his mouthpiece Mara during Mara's lecture to Luke. I don't agree with it at all. I feel that Mara was absolutely wrong! She basically said that everything that Luke had done during the ten years between DE and VotF was tainted by the dark side, and I don't agree... AT ALL! Luke did many, many wonderful things in those years and he saved many people. I can't really think of anything that Luke did during those years that could be considered "dark side". I also don't feel that everything Luke has done is dominated by the dark side.

So I disagree with Mara and with Zahn and with this idea that Luke's life will forever be dominated by the dark side.







JediMatteus:
CoW wanted Luke to kill the man, and not let him escape.

No, the guy didn't have to die... But I didn't want him to escape, and I wanted Luke to win a clear victory over him.







Revanfan1 :
Children of the Jedi. COTJ made me want to cry in any scene Luke was in (so pretty much all of them) because Luke was so depressed...swollen ankle and headache...that I was depressed by the time I finished the book. I mean, really. Reading Luke should make one happy and feeling like the light will always win, not depressed.

I completely agree that reading about Luke should make one happy and not depressed, and I definitely share your opinion about CotJ! While I thought the story of Black Fleet Crisis was interesting, I didn't like Luke's portrayal in it at all.... and don't get me started about annoying, manipulative Akanah!






MasterSkywalker86:
In Apocalypse it happen, but like you said Luke wasn't written that way in the last 8 books. He was written as restrained. It's annoying considering what we witnessed in DN and LotF prior.


It's especially annoying knowing what Luke is supposed to be capable of!


And Jacen can't resist when he gets knocked into the control panel.


And Jacen didn't know that Luke was alive when he came aboard his ship and took out the turbolasors. Ben was able to sense his father's presence, but Jacen couldn't. Jacen thought Luke was dead.

 

Yeah. Akanah made me mad, very mad. Go out and find your family, woman, don't manipulate Luke into doing it for you! I can't help but think the author was trying to make us sympathetic to her, but it just failed when we found out she was tricking him from the start. That made me want to rip her apart. And the fact that she was later possessed by Abeloth...well, it wasn't pleasant but it was almost deserved, given what she did. Almost.

One book I did like Luke in was The New Rebellion. He saw a problem, went out, and fixed it. First he tried to turn Brakiss (and, IIRC, Kueller) back to the light side. When it fails, he takes them on. Leia shooting Kueller was a bit of a cop-out, but nonetheless that doesn't detract from what Luke did. But once again, the author gave him a broken ankle to compensate for Luke's power levels. I also thought TNR was interesting because it was practically our first dark side character who didn't have a red lightsaber–Kueller's blade was metallic blue.

 

Revanfan:

Yeah. Akanah made me mad, very mad. Go out and find your family, woman, don't manipulate Luke into doing it for you!

Exactly! I never found Akanah to be the least bit sympathetic! She treated Luke VERY poorly!


Leia shooting Kueller was a bit of a cop-out, but nonetheless that doesn't detract from what Luke did.

Not only was it a copout, but it also annoyed me that Leia killed Kuellor in anger and hatred, and yet she wasn't blasted for it. If Luke would have done that, he would have been called a darksider. Leia always gets a free pass.


​

 

Yeah, that was the only part of the book I didn't like. Other than that (oh, and the spider-dude Senator), the book was great.

 

ChildOfWinds,

Oh yeah there were multiple scenes where Luke overpowers Jacen. Meaning Jacen should have used his stealth and guile rather than brute force. But having 3 authors and 3 very different ideas for how to utilize him meant a inconsistent portrayal for him. They also could have him as a constant villain and build him up but that didn't happen. Anywho On a different topic, I'm probably going to rely on you Child to give me the details of Luke in Crucible and his feats. Cause at this point I rather reread my collection of EU books than deal with the new direction.

I'm halfway through SotE.

Revanfan1, I love that Luke is lower than 10% of his abilities due to his injuries and yet still stalemates Kueller

 

Jacen wasn't in Luke's league in terms of mastery of the Force

maybe but Jacen was still quite a bit more powerful than Saba, Kyp, Kyle, and even Jaina despite how the last book was written. He only had one arm when facing Jaina. Jacen Solo's power was a little underrated. To me some of this is the fault of del rey, for not letting Jacen win an encounter

 

There are ways to make Jacen a threat without him being as powerful as Luke. His more exotic abilities, and his will to used dirty tactics is what saved his life in his battle with Mara

 

Yeah! Luke can ROFL-stomp anyone–or he should.