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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit A Cynical Walk Through the NJO

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Cynical_Ben, Aug 17, 2013.

  1. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    That's actually how I've read most of what I listed.
     
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  2. FTeik

    FTeik Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 7, 2000
    Budget-constrains are not. :rolleyes:
     
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  3. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Libraries, libraries, libraries
     
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  4. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

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    Dec 16, 2012
    Just wondering; what are the jedi blamed for? And why, outside of that we can not have heroes who work with the government?
     
  5. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    So, Balance Point. Some guy that kind of sounds like Luke keeps telling Jacen to stand firm. Huh.
     
  6. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    It's post-Crucible flow-walking Luke, trying to avert Jacen's fall and create the Sequel Trilogy. :p
     
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  7. Bib Fartuna

    Bib Fartuna Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Is there a group consensus on this thread?

    Can someone provide me a summary? Ie: A Cynical Run Through the NJO?
     
  8. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I very much enjoy the thread. I just finished it. Kudos.

    Edit:

    I'm going to post a much longer review but the irony is that this is a far less cynical and more balanced take on the NJO than most fans have ever given it.
     
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  9. Bib Fartuna

    Bib Fartuna Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Gone in 60 seconds?
     
  10. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Short version: The thread is a very nice re-read so far. Lots of comments on the ideas and characters as they happen. Definitely people should read it.
     
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  11. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Thanks for the good thoughts, Charles. Honestly, the NJO has been far better than I expected or remembered. I've had far less to be Cynical about. The only real gripes I have with it so far are Mara's characterization and the fact that the New Republic politicians have been one-dimensional. But I see that changing as I move further on, we'll see. My Balance Point review will be coming up on Thursday or Friday, most likely, got stuff going on this week. I'll probably post sooner if I decide to do more than just a summary.

    Bib, did you want a summary of this thread, or of the NJO thus far?
     
  12. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Nah it was Ben when he's older -- Luke didn't learn Flow-Walking. And it sounds LIKE Luke, but it wasn't Luke!

    Jacen.

    A voice seemed to echo in his mind, but it wasn't Jaina's. It was deep, male -- vaguely like his uncle's.

    Making an effort, Jacen imagined his uncle's face, trying to focus on that echo. An enormous white vortex seemed to spin around him. It pulled at him, drawing him toward its dazzling center.

    What was going on?

    Then he saw his uncle, robed in pure white, half turned away. Luke Skywalker held his shimmering lightsaber in a diagonal stance, hands at hip level, point high.

    Jaina! Jacen shouted the words in his mind. Uncle Luke, Jaina's been hurt!

    Then he saw what held his uncle's attention. In the dim distance, but clearly in focus, a second form straightened and darkened. Tall, humanoid, powerfully built, it had a face and chest covered with sinuous scars and tattoos. Its hips and legs were encased in rust-brown armor. Claws protruded from its heels and knuckles, and an ebony cloak flowed from its shoulders. The alien held a coal-black, snake-headed amphistaff across its body, mirroring the angle of Luke's lightsaber, pitting poisonous darkness against verdant light.

    Utterly confused, Jacen stretched out through the Force. First he sensed the figure in white as a respected uncle -- then abruptly as a powerful depth, blazing in the Force like a star gone nova. But across this slowly spinning disk, where Jacen's inner vision presented a Yuuzhan Vong warrior, his Force sense picked up nothing at all. Through the Force, all Yuuzhan Vong did seem utterly lifeless, like the technology they vilified.

    The alien swung its amphistaff. The Jedi Master's lightsaber blazed, swept down, and blocked the swing, brightening until it washed out almost everything else in this vision. The Yuuzhan Vong's amphistaff seemed darker than any absence of light, a darkness that seemed alive but promised death.

    The broad, spinning disk on which they both stood finally slowed. It focused into billions of stars. Jacen picked out the familiar map of known space.

    Luke dropped into a fighting stance, poised near the galaxy's center, the Deep Core. He raised his lightsaber and held it high, near his right shoulder, pointing inward. From three points of darkness, beyond the Rim, tattooed assailants advanced.

    More of them? Jacen realized this was a vision, not a battle unfolding in front of him, with little to do with his twin sister.

    Or maybe everything to do with her! Did these new invaders symbolize other invasion forces, more worldships -- besides the ones that were already beating back everything the New Republic could throw at them? Reaching out to Jaina, maybe he had tapped the Force itself -- or maybe it broke through to him.

    The galaxy seemed to teeter, poised between light and darkness. Luke stood close to the center, counterweighing the dark invaders.

    But as their numbers increased, the balance tipped.

    Uncle Luke, Jacen shouted. What should I do?

    Luke turned away from the advancing Yuuzhan Vong. Looking to Jacen with somber intensity, he tossed his lightsaber. It flew in a low, humming arc, trailing pale green sparks onto the galactic plane.

    Eyeing the advancing horde, Jacen felt another enemy try to seize him: anger, from deep in his heart. Fear and fury focused his strength. If he could, he would utterly destroy the Yuuzhan Vong and all they stood for! He opened a hand, stretched out his arm . . .

    And missed.

    The Jedi weapon sailed past him. As anger released him, fear took a tighter hold. Jacen flailed, leapt, tried stretching out with the Force. Luke's lightsaber sailed on, shrinking and dimming with distance.

    Now the galaxy tipped more quickly. A dark, deadly tempest gathered around the alien warriors. Disarmed, Luke stretched out both hands. First he, then his enemies, swelled to impossible sizes.

    Instead of human and alien figures, now Jacen saw light and darkness as entirely separate forces. Even the light terrified him in its grandeur and majesty. The galaxy seemed poised to plunge toward evil, but Jacen couldn't help staring at the fearful light, spellbound, burning his retinas.

    A Jedi knows no fear . . . He'd heard that a thousand times, but this sensation was no cowardly urge to run. This was awe, it was reverence -- a passionate longing to draw nearer. To serve the light and transmit its grandeur.

    But compared to the forces battling around him, he was only a tiny point. Helpless and unarmed, besides -- because of one moment's dark anger. Had that misstep doomed him? Not just him, but the galaxy?

    A voice like Luke's, but deeper, shook the heavens. Jacen, it boomed. Stand firm.

    The horizon tilted farther. Jacen lunged forward, determined to lend his small weight to Luke's side, to the light.

    He misstepped. He nailed for Luke's hand, but missed again. And again, his weight fell slightly -- by centimeters -- toward the dark enemies.

    Luke seized his hand and held tightly. Hang on, Jacen! The slope steepened under their feet. Stars extinguished. The Yuuzhan Vong warriors scrambled forward. Whole star clusters winked out, a dark cascade under clawed enemy feet.

    Plainly, the strength of a hundred-odd Jedi couldn't keep the galaxy from falling to this menace. One misstep -- at one critical moment, by one pivotal person -- could doom everyone they'd sworn to protect. No military force could stop this invasion, because it was a spiritual battle. And if one pivotal person fell to the dark side -- or even used the ravishing, terrifying power of light in a wrong way -- then this time, everything they knew might slide into stifling darkness.

    Is that it? he cried toward the infinite distance.

    Again, Jacen perceived the words in a voice that was utterly familiar but too deep to be Luke's. Stand firm, Jacen.

    One of the Yuuzhan Vong leapt toward him. Jacen gasped and flung out both arms --
     
  13. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2000
    I think the NJO is significantly better in retrospect or, maybe, we long for the time when our heroes were not in danger of having one of their own flip-out before having to be put down by a close relative. The New Jedi Order, in a way, feels a trifle more innocent than it did when Vector Prime first came out.

    Certainly, while the NJO received massive complaints on the board (I was there, after all), there were few people abandoning ship the way they are now. People were INTERESTED in what was going to happen next and there was a large amount of discussion on where they were going to take the galaxy.

    I still think the Yuuzahn Vong are crap villains and people's reaction to them were surreal. The story goes out of its way to make them practice human sacrifice, worship pain, commit genocide on entire worlds, and generally destroy everything in their path. Some have stated that they seem more like Warhammer 40K villains more than Star Wars and I'd have to say I agree. They're Dark Elder Tyranids.

    TUF managed the nearly impossible task of wrapping up the Yuuzhan Vong storyline in such a way as to provide an Aesop. That no matter how different a person may be or how different their cultural values--it's possible to come to a peaceful accord. Still, this is sort of ruined by the fact the Yuuzhan Vong have wrecked 6% of the galaxy (assuming 1,000,000 worlds averages about 7,000,000,000 each).

    I also tend to feel that the New Jedi Order was the "angry adolescence" of the Star Wars cycle. The period when the EU started listening to Linken Park, dress in black, and complain about how he's so much deeper than his parents. It's deliberately dark for the sake of being dark and that hurts the narrative.

    Still, there's a lot to appreciate in these early volumes. Jacen Solo is annoying but he's clearly trying to find himself and doesn't have all of the answers. Anakin Solo has found himself but he's not quite fully 'formed.' Jaina Solo is just along for the ride and it makes the characters more interesting.

    I will say, there was a minor kerfuffle about the fact that Anakin, Jaina, and Jacen weren't already Jedi Knights by the time the NJO. After all, the latter two were knighted during the climax of the Young Jedi Knight's series. Really, I don't mind, though. They don't have the experience, as their personalities are depicted in the NJO, to really bear such a heavy weight.

    The New Jedi Order MATTERED, however. When they killed Chewbacca, when they blew up Ithor, and when they did X things--you cared. I also felt that the victories over the Yuuzhan Vong didn't feel forced either. They actually felt like triumphs because the authors brought home the fact how dangerous the invaders were.
     
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  14. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    The more recent EU is more dark for the sake of being dark than the NJO ever was... :confused:o_O
     
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  15. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    I disagree. I think they realized no one wanted to read about pain worshiping hellspawn. I do think Legacy, however, kind of returned us to the excesses of the past.
     
  16. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    I demand Cynical Ben be sued for false advertising! There is a lack of cynicism in this thread!

    I invoke the C'Boath sanction: HOW DARE HE!
     
  17. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    NJO is so naturally cynical, the two forces canceled each other out!
     
  18. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    When you turn the Yuuzhan Vong into a caricature, sure. Most people that complain about the NJO seem to just reduce the Yuuzhan Vong to the lowest common denominator. But that seems to happen a lot on this forum for pretty much everything. The pain worship was exclusive to Domain Shai. But let's stereotype the entire species based on one antagonist that's in two novels.
     
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  19. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    No Domain Shai was freaky about the pain EVEN TO OTHER YUUZHAN VONG.

    All Vong worshiped pain to some degree. See Tsavong Lah and the Vong Anakin teamed up with on Yavin IV.
     
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  20. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    I dunno, I just feel like people that characterize the Yuuzhan Vong as being X are missing the point entirely, no matter what X is.
     
  21. Charlemagne19

    Charlemagne19 Chosen One star 8

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    Jul 30, 2000
    The Vong have some variance and individuality amongst its characters but one make some broad cultural statements. Especially since these statements are about their narrative role.
     
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  22. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

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    Feb 17, 2004
    And the New Republic and Imperial Remnant and Chiss Ascendancy are all infidels, despite some variance and individuality among them. They can't be saved.
     
  23. Cynical_Ben

    Cynical_Ben Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2013
    You want me to be more Cynical? Fine.

    Vector Prime was boring and dragged through most of the beginning, Onslaught didn't have enough Corran, Ruin had too much Corran, Hero's Trial didn't have a real ending, Jedi Eclipse had the pacing of frozen treacle, Wedge hasn't appeared in this series enough, Anakin's in it too much, Jacen's annoying, Jaina's as bland as plain oatmeal, Luke hasn't done enough, Leia's done too much, Mara should have been killed in this series instead of LotF, and every one of the politicians in the New Republic should just be nuked from orbit to keep their kind from spreading.

    Also, the Vong are a stupid choice for an enemy. They're way to different, stupid and evil. Why, it's almost like they aren't from the Star Wars galaxy at all!
     
  24. DigitalMessiah

    DigitalMessiah Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Stackpole writes politicians like Traviss writes Jedi.
     
  25. Gorefiend

    Gorefiend Chosen One star 5

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    Oct 23, 2004

    o_O You did read X-Wing?