CT Joss Whedon Doesn’t Like the Ending to Empire Strikes Back

I already didn't like this guy for his opinions on Weird Science, and all the post-Avengers gushing. I've tried watching Firefly a couple of times, and I just can't get into it, and certainly can't compare it to STAR WARS as that article did.

 

It's the same issues brought up in "Something, Something, Something Darkside", a few years back. There, the same thing had been said, that that was not much of an ending. And most movies do end with a full and actual ending. As to "Firefly", the comparison is more about how Mal Reynolds is like Han Solo, a good guy who does things a bit crookedly and has a ship that's seen a lot of miles. Similar to Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon.

 

Actually, "Firefly" is basically an American remake of "Blake's 7".

 

Is this thread still going on? Who cares if Whedon dislikes Empire's ending? He's only one guy and his Avengers wasn't even as financially successful as Empire.

 

Well, here's one way I'd respond to Mr Whedon on ESB's behalf.

 

I never said anything about remaking. I said that there was a bit of a comparison and the most common one is Han Solo.

Really? "The Avengers" made $1,511,757, 910 worldwide. TESB made $538,375,067 worldwide with multiple releases. Oh, you're talking about inflation. Not, what it actually made in the 80's and in 1997. That's not really a comparison is it. That's just inflating the gross by saying a movie made and released thirty years later, beats the pants off of another. That's like stuffing your underwear. Go by what was made without inflation.

 

No, you go by tickets sold to compare how many people saw these movies. You can't compare grosses with Empire & Avengers because movies cost less then $5.00 in 1980 compared to $12.00-15.00 dollars now. Of course movies today will make more when they cost 3 times what they did in 1980!

 

Yes, but you must also factor in that TESB had multiple releases between May 21st, 1980 and its last release on February 21st, 1997. "The Avengers" only had its one release on May 4th, 2012. The difference the home video market makes between then and now. Because even when you want to compare tickets sold, "Gone With The Wind" beats out all of them. Of the top twenty films on box office mojo, six of the top twenty had one theatrical release. The rest had two or more. That's why you cannot rely on the number of tickets sold between 1980 and 2012, because the numbers will always be skewered. "E.T." had three documented releases, which puts it ahead of TESB and below ANH, which has three documented releases, but there were more than that. "Raiders Of The Lost Ark" had four, but comes in at #20.

 

Exactly. TESB beats Avengers in every inflation adjusted list there is. Comparing without adjusting for inflation makes no sense at all.

 

Sure it does. It means that in 1980, 1982 and 1997, TESB made this amount of money all told. While in 2012, "The Avengers" made this amount of money. Inflation is a cheat that's only used as a measuring stick to try and make it fair, but it really isn't. That's why box office mojo has a second option with unadjusted inflation, which goes by what was actually made and not relying on economics.

 

Unadjusted inflation would mean the modern movies are more successful than even the best older ones which is very hard to believe.

 

Despite creating me,I have to disagree with Joss. ESB is how you end the second movie of a trilogy.

 

This is why its next to impossible to compare movie box offices from different era's because there is so many variables. You could make an argument that The Original Star Wars opened on 40 screens while The Avengers opened on 3,500+ screens, so it takes less time to get it final gross. Plus there are more people on the planet now (double the amount of people in 1980 to 2013 in the US alone) so that more people who will see a movie these days. There are so many variables is just too hard to have a good comparison between movie era's.

 

He shouldn't be proud of the fact that American movies tend to have worse stories than international ones, because writers are unwilling to explore new ideas and stick to a formula. Any softening of the "I am your father" blow would definitely have reduced Star Wars quality as a franchise. ESB is rightfully considered a classic not just because of the money it made when released, but the legacy of story and movie tropes it inspired. It's because it was risky enough to not be formulaic.

 

Mal is nothing like Han. Mal shoots first.

 

Then that's why it shouldn't be brought up as an argument, of which was the better received film.

And this is a problem, how? Successful doesn't always translate to being better. I mean, "The Godfather" and its sequel completely blow "A New Hope" and "The Empire Strikes Back" out of the water. Yet, the works of Lucas made more money at the box office with or without inflation being a factor. "The Avengers" was successful because it entertained a lot of people, just like "The Empire Strikes Back" did. The superior film, that's just a matter of opinion.

Yet, he also has a point. Movies up to that point stood on their own when they were done. You didn't need "The Godfather Part II" to find out what happened in the final scene of the original. You didn't need to wait a whole film to find out what happened at the end of "Rocky", regarding the winner of the fight. You see Brody and Hooper swimming towards the shore, rather than hanging out in the ocean. True, TESB broke the rules and should be praised for it. But think about how you felt at the time. Think about how the critics weren't too thrilled with an unfinished film, knowing that Lucas was going to milk it for all its worth. Now, now it's become formulaic. So many films had copied the format.

 

The Avengers was a popcorn movie that had a weak villain, it was lucky enough to have like 8 films to hype it up for the fanboys.

The Empire Strikes Back is one of the greatest films ever made, and was initially panned by people like Whedon who were mad because it 'wasn't like the first one'.

Thirty years from now will The Avengers be a beloved as TESB? I will let you answer that one yourself.

 

TESB is also a popcorn movie, as is the other five films. As will all the films that follow.

 

Adjusting for inflation is not a "cheat". In fact, not adjusting for inflation is much more of a cheat than adjusting. $1 in 1980 bought a lot more than $1 does today.

 

I am a HUGE fan of both those Godfather movies, but I wouldn't say they blow Star Wars out of the water. They have their flaws too. Furthermore, comparing across genres isn't really a fair comparison. The Godfather is a drama where the quality of the acting is going to be a huge factor. Star Wars is an action-adventure where the acting is allowed to take a back seat but you need better visual effects.

 

No way a lame Whedon invention like Captain America will ever have the staying power of Han Solo!

 

guys cmon its just one mans opinion and hes entitled to it

 

That "one man" could conceivably be directing a future Star Wars movie, so his take on the OT is fair play.

 

They should hire a more competent director.

 

Joss Whedon Doesn’t Like the Ending to Empire Strikes Back?!?

What is that all about? That was the true stand-out Star Wars movie. Bro, go back to film school, because ESB... RAWKS!!!