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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Who's The Baddie?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by fishtailsam, Oct 31, 2012.

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  1. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

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    Oct 13, 2003
    The Genie in the... Urn? :p
     
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  2. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    If they really crank the hyper-capitalist angle up to 11, I might be on board for some Plagueis-action, because that is really a Sith we haven't seen before. Someone who is both living in an extremely materialist society but practices mystical magic at the same time.

    Still, they'd have to explain to the audience how he could fool Palpatine into thinking he's dead and why he waited so many years to act. One solution from the top of my head: Palpatine murdered a sleeping clone of Plagueis. In his arrogance he didn't check if the clone was the real Plagueis.

    I'd prefer a secret apprentice of Vader because of the very strong connection to the heroes.
     
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  3. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    Anakin would definitely have mentioned any secret apprentices that he's had.
     
  4. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Unless he thought them dead/stranded on wild planet.
     
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  5. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Tell me about this wild planet, Pevra.
     
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  6. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    It would of course be full of wild rancors and other beasts which the villain has to kill countless times. After a couple years, he himself becomes like a wild animal and in turn embraces the dark side.

    Later he meets a primitive tribe and slowly gains control of it while hiding his beast-like personality. When a smuggler ship lands he sneaks on board and makes off for the rest of the galaxy. He hasn't forgotten who put him into this predicament and wants revenge. If Vader is dead, then on his family.
     
  7. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Haha. I like it. Especially the "of course wild rancors" part but particularly the seeking revenge on Vader's family. I imagine there'd be a quite a few people out there that want revenge on Vader. That's a keen idea.
     
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  8. Vicarious Fan

    Vicarious Fan Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 1, 2013
    not really at all. They wouldn't be stupid enough to completely get rid of everything before this. Disney spent too much money to flush it all down the toilet by ignoring the stuff that went before it.

    There is nothing that has even been remotely hinted at that would indicate the big bad being Plagues.
     
  9. Vicarious Fan

    Vicarious Fan Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 1, 2013


    Any new character they add wouldn't have a strong connection to the heroes. Unless its Luke turning evil. Otherwise its still a new person we have never seen before and the connection has to be established.

    I'd prefer it to be the reverse of the Rebels from A New Hope. Someone who grew up under imperial rule and had everything taken away from him by the Rebellion. Someone who views the Rebellion as evil and destructive and the Empire as order and justice.

    Sort of like how the Stormtroopers of the Hand of Judgement saw it in Allegiance (Which if you haven't read it you really should) except of course Sith. Even add in some political drama as he tries to prove that the Jedi order is corrupt and view themselves as judge jury and executioner.

    Basically give us something NEW
     
  10. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    What about an evil banana? That would be new.
     
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  11. TtheForceHurts

    TtheForceHurts Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 28, 2010
    I still prefer Jabba's son, turned Sith (wielding 3 red lightsabers, 1 in each hand and another with his tail:D) seeking revenge on Leia...
     
  12. Vicarious Fan

    Vicarious Fan Jedi Master star 3

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    Jul 1, 2013
    I guess you didn't see the Holiday Special ;P
     
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  13. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    The connection would be that you have basically two "sons" of Vader. One sorta adopted son (as Vader is his only father figure) and one real son (Luke). It makes sense that some sibling rivalry could come into play and jealousy because one son was discarded for the other. Of course this connection would have to be explained. But I think something like that would be more interesting than "evil guy is evil because he is evil".

    But your idea is also very interesting. I would love to see a real "political idealist" type of villain in SW.
     
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  14. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    How does a writer provide something 'new' without ignoring what came before?

    If the original plan had Palpatine defeated in IX, and his demise occured in VI, how do you address that problem?

    Who would pose an equal or greater threat than Palpatine?

    If the theme of the ST is ethereal, than perhaps the problem is also. What new problems can a writer create for the story and the new protagonists? Is there a character that may provide for a sufficient problem?

    How can a writer root the protagonists and the antagonists into the previous story line, providing something new without it looking disjointed?

    I think Darth Plagueis fits the criteria. What do you think?
     
  15. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Force Ghost star 4

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    Oct 6, 2004
    It appears there are some people that still like to think that the story is over in EPI thru VI, saga done, and the ST will not be a continuation of the same story but just an additional trilogy :rolleyes:
     
  16. Bullhead CIty

    Bullhead CIty Jedi Master star 3

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    Dec 1, 2012
    ...plagueis...
     
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  17. I_Love_Scotch

    I_Love_Scotch Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 2, 2013
    Bingo, and guess who is the only Baddie that they could go with to keep the story on the same Arc? Oh yeah it was that Sith wizard who learned how to live forever, which could easily fly under everyone's radar if thought to be dead.

    Problems with a secret apprentice of Vader or Palps, or even a secret son or daughter:

    1.) Would totally cheapen the prophecy which Anakin presumably fulfilled.
    2.) Would make Anakin look like a fool for not telling Luke about the other threats in his last moments.

    Problem with a clone of Palps:

    1.) Cheesy and extra cliché with an extra helping of cheese and cliché. Although I do prefer this over a secret apprentice or son/daughter.

    I don't care if we see Plagueis until Ep. 9...especially if it built up to the all or nothing confrontation. You could have other secondary baddies working for him in the other 2 movies who could be completely badass but overall maintaining the same story arc.
     
  18. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 25, 2003
    [face_laugh]

    This is exactly my opinion as well. I absolutely do not want a secret apprentice-in fact, I also am very against the idea of a clone of Palpatine as well; it's such a copout. (second death star, anyone??).

    I know it's not necessarily all that popular an opinion, but I would really enjoy having Darth Plagueis be the main villain! it could work perfectly, if everyone thought he was dead no one would know he existed.

    imagine if the thought was that Anakin brought balance to the force by killing Sidious,but we find in the ST that the prophecy is fulfilled not by Anakin, but by his son Luke (the other "son of the suns"), who destroys Darth Plagueis-which then finally brings true balance to the force. I would like seeing that play out at least...

    either way, I would really love if Darth Plagueis was the villain! I could see Benedict Cumberbatch playing that part perfectly, too-now that I think about it!
     
  19. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 14, 2013
    Would it be possible for Mcdiarmid to play Plagueis?
     
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  20. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    And Plagueis doesn't? o_O
    How is Anakin supposed to fulfil the prophecy when he is dead?

    In any case I don't think Arndt and Abrams should stick with the interpretation that Anakin has to kill all the Sith. If it were like OBW thought, Anakin could never truly achieve eternal balance because there is always the possibility that a Jedi falls.
    Better: Only planet destroying and galaxy dominating Sith cause an imbalance. This ties nicely with OBW's statement "It is as if millions of voices cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced." >> imbalance

    Not necessarily. Anakin might think this former pupil is dead as I explained in a previous post.


    That's because it was done. ROTJ tied up all important lose ends and yes, even Plagueis is tied up (because he is dead and stuff).

    What Arndt and Abrams are attempting is trying to fool us into believing the previous story isn't over. The better they are at ***** the audience, the better the movies will be.

    The starred word is an expression of a bull taking a crap.
     
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  21. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    That would confuse every single audience member causing their heads to explode flooding the room with seas of brain and blood.
     
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  22. DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR

    DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR Force Ghost star 5

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    Jun 8, 2002
    Man, the more I hear about this guy, the more I hope one of the spinoff films will be the Darth Plagueis adaptation. It'll be like a Star Wars mob movie. :)
     
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  23. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    The more I hear about this guy the more he sounds like a Voldemort rip-off.
     
  24. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    But what would the new heroes be doing if Luke is the one to destroy Plagueis? At least in ROTJ Luke achieved victory by redeeming his father which caused him to turn on the Emperor and destroy him. We have to remember that this is most likely not Luke's story anymore so it has to be the next generation who take the mantle from their parents and achieve victory through their own actions.
     
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  25. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    I like your idea of the two sons of Vader, but I want to point out that Star Wars is a genre that's more allegorical and can deal with explorations of essences like evil and good rather than psychologically realistic explanations for evil very legitimately.

    Charles Baxter writes a great essay on this idea, that contemporary storytelling is obsessed with finding reasons for evil acts, when in fact sometimes there may be no reason other than the existence of evil. For example, sociopaths don't have a good reason for choosing evil, they are born that way. Some beings and alien cultures may simply be malevolent (e.g., H.P. Lovecraft's metaphysics of evil). I find the lack of reasonable motive actually more interesting, especially in the fantasy genre, than psychological realism.
     
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