ST So J.J. Abrams wants Star Wars to feel real.

All Star Wars movies have had their flaws, but that doesn't keep most of us from loving them anyway. In a way, I love them as much for the flaws as in spite of them. OT and PT, both. I expect the ST will have their share as well.

 

Yeah not everyone is going to love the ST. We're just going to have to accept that.

 

agreed even though the first 2 films of the pt dont exist in my mind. i just think episode 3 is the one film that is the full pt

 

Oh come on you can't really mean that? That's just an asinine sweeping generalisation. I know plenty of people who don't like or appreciate ANY Star Wars movie... in fact I know some who actively hold them in contempt for kickstarting the pomp and circumstance of the summer blockbuster. Does that make us apologists for the OT?

 

No lack of imaginative setting/locations/aliens worlds! I NEED that!

 

The analogy isn't really a good one, PJ. This is about the quality of narrative rather than a view of the blockbuster.

And I'm not sure what you mean by sweeping generalization. I Are The Internets was referring to "some fans" and I speculated that these sorts of extreme PT supporters may either be loyal or stubborn, or maybe both.

And I wouldn't mind discussing any subject with you, but if you're going to resort to ad hominem, attacking me or others with words like "asinine," then I'm going to have to just take that as an admission that you're not very serious and have resorted to emotional responses. Which means you've given up but are too stubborn to admit it.

 

No, he's not openly bashing the PT, but reading between the lines and going off past comments that he's made, this is along the same lines of KK's comments about a return to an emphasis in story and character, along with more practical over digital and more locations:

Basically - returning to more of an OT vibe.

That's not to knock anyone who loves all the Movies equally, or to dispute the opinions of those who feel only GL knows SW or that the OT has plenty of flaws itself. If that's how you feel no one can take that away, not should they.

I just wish that there wouldn't be this knee jerk 'haters gonna hate' response when people hold the OT in higher regard. It is not just a bitter
Minority that feel this way. I would argue that it's a fairly general consensus, and I'd argue that you won't find many in the film industry other than GL and a few hardcore fans that feel differently - including JJ, and probably KK, Kasdan, Kinberg and Arndt as well.

In six years working in the industry I have rarely met anyone that doesn't consider the PT to be terrible, unlike the classics they consider to be the OT. Now that's purely anecdotal and proves little and doesn't make that opinion fact, not does it belittle anyone's genuine love of the PT.

If people love the PT, fantastic, I like lots about them too, but please, please, please, accept that on the whole, the consensus, is going to be that most of the general audience will be hoping for a return to the vibe and quality of the OT, which I still don't see can be a bad thing if you like SW!

You ( a general you) may want it to be more of the PT (in its own ST kind of way) and that's great but I think it's not unreasonable to read into comments by the filmmakers that they want to get back to 'classic' SW.

If the PT was broadly considered classics in the same way we wouldn't be having these debates, it would just be 'yay, more SW!' .

I'm not asking anyone to like this, I just think it might be good to disagree with the OT> PT notion personally, but still, however painful it may be, accept that in general terms that seems to be the consensus.

I realize I'm totally wasting my breath here.

 

Yeah I can accept that. I only hope that they don't get so caught up in trying to replicate the OT that they forget that they are concluding a nine-movie saga with a beginning, middle, and end. To me, it feels right for the central trilogy to be smaller in scale and more character-focused. But with the first trilogy having more of a sweeping operatic quality, I think the final trilogy should maintain at least some of that larger scale and maybe even a little of the tone for the sake of balance. I wouldn't want the ST to be a straight up rehash of either of the first two trilogies, but in my perfect world it would be unafraid to follow its own unique path while keeping what works about each of the previous trilogies, e.g. the more grounded realism and relatable characters of the OT (but please don't just copy and paste the personalities of the OT characters onto the next generation. I'm NOT looking forward to the inevitable "new Han Solo". One is plenty, thank you.) and the larger galactic scale with perhaps even some of that more operatic quality of the PT (not that it wasn't present at all in the OT as well)... and yes, that necessitates in plenty of CG, though even I'll admit that it got a little extreme in ROTS, and I did sort of miss the use of real locations.

 

It sounds to me that you are trying to assert that your taste is superior than those that like or appreciate something you do not... in this case the prequels. This isn't aimed at you directly Dra, but I personally find it the worst kind of intellectual snobbery to snark and snipe about the things that this kind of website should be celebrating (or at least appreciating)... and that's not to say they shouldn't be critiqued.

Logic dictates that there are going to be a good proportion of those who like the prequels on these boards... so why do a Bob Marley and 'stir it up'? The analogy I stated was perfectly fine... beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder. I'd be the first to admit that the PT falls short of the OT (well ANH and TESB anyway), but that does not make them the bad movies that some people believe. I personally think that, with the multitude of flaws and all, the prequels have more intelligence, artistry, imagination and 'soul' than the new Star Trek movies, Thor, Iron Man, Pirates of the Caribbean, Man of Steel etc. etc. so I think these things have to be viewed in context and with a more pragmatic approach.

I like you and your posts, generally, so don't take this the wrong way... but I personally find barbed/loaded comments about the prequels, or people who like the prequels, just a bit tired. Rant over...

 

I guess I'll put up a poll to get the PT/OT lovers/haters percentage on here...

 

I don't think anyone means to stir up any ill feeling. I'm not sure there will be many with issues with the PT still wading into the PT forums, but with the ST coming along it's inevitable that some are going to want to air hopes for a return to what they consider the qualities of the OT without being slammed as bashers. There's no way the ST will please everyone but at least at this stage there is still plenty of hope that they can pull it out of the bag.

 

I think we should leave that. Lets not cause any more division, I want to see this next saga unite fan rather than split

 

Lucas? The guy who made Greedo shoot first so as not to make Han an irredeemable, cold blooded killer? When the main point to the end of his saga is about redeeming a cold blooded killer? Yeah, I feel 100% confident in my view that Lucas not only doesn't understand his own creation, but that he's an utter moron as well.

 

Whilst I personally don't like the change to the Solo/Greedo scene, I think you're missing the point if you think Han Solo was supposed to ever be a "cold blooded killer"... because clearly he isn't.

 

The stupidest thing about the change to this scene is that it makes no sense. Greedo says he is taking Han to Jabba to get his reward. He tells Han that he can explain the loss of cargo to Jabba. So WHY would he shoot him all of a sudden? Can someone explain this?

 

It's a truly abysmal change and I'm still staggered GL thought it looked even half-way competent let alone that it was needed from a story POV, but that's a whole other can or worms.

 

Not I can't explain... Clearly Lucas didn't like the thought that maybe Han Solo shot someone in cold blood. I think everyone here would agree that the change doesn't improve it. Brilliant people, however, can make questionable judgements. They are not immune.

 

He wasn't. That's the whole point. No one thought Han gunning down Greedo was anything more than self defense. Lucas was just trying to pull some spin when he was trying to justify this change. Try again.

 

Indeed. Film history has numerous examples of directors who may not necessarily be on the same page as their audiences where their work is concerned. I think we could argue that if Ridley Scott understood what really worked about Alien, Prometheus would have been a far different movie.

 

There's another way to look at it. That sometimes a creator's tastes and visions change or mature and evolve in to something that no longer jives with fans of their original, earlier works.

 

Either way, the end result is the same: the film fails.

 

If it's a weaker film, yes for those that don't like it anyway.