PT George Lucas, Post-ROTJ, states beautifully why the Prequels were necessary

Personally, without the PT, Anakin's redemption just comes across as a tad...arbitrary (to me at least); almost as though it happens just because Lucas wanted to have a happy ending and he couldn't have Luke kill his father. In ANH and ESB, we never really get any indication that Vader feels any kind of remorse for his actions. Then, of course, in ROTJ, there is a greater sadness to him -- but it's difficult to discern why. For me, the PT helped with this especially because it was the final culmination of Anakin's journey -- of learning to love unselfishly and putting the well-being of others over his own, even if that means his suffering. Without this context, it means a lot less, in my opinion.

 

I'll never cease to be shocked by those who were fine and dandy with Vader's redemption until witnessing the ROTS slaughter of the innocents. As if a dozen little corpses runs contrary to the fact that the Vader of ANH and TESB stands as one of the most despicable, dishonorable villains in film.

Heck, the only action that would have surprised me was if Vader had cannibalized the children.

 

Star Wars Fandom: Where Child Murder is met with a hardy meh.

 

It really depends on my mood but I'm kind of in both camps. Rotj works great with just the OT but its certainly enhanced by the prequels. Trivial moments like "Here we go again" work both ways. "It's a trap" is a great twist after six movies leading in. This is true about a lot of Rotj lines, one of my faves is the added impact to "Young fool, only now at the end do you understand." In regards to Vader's arc, I feel you really have to watch Rotj to appreciate Rots. It adds so much context and really establishes what Vader has given up and where it brought him. Lines like "You don't know the power of the dark side. I must obey my master." and "I will not turn, and you'll be forced to kill me." "If that is your destiny." are now gold. Just as a side note, for me this incarnation of Luke is easily a close second to ESB. On symbolism, I kind of had my mind blown when I noticed the hell and heaven inversion of Vader's immolation and cremation at the end of each trilogy. A broken bond to Obi-wan and the Jedi where Anakin is burned alive, after dismemberment and harsh words with Obi, reversed totally when he is reunited with Luke and the Jedi years later. Vader's dignified cremation, again through fire, of course happens after kind words with Luke, and dying in his arms.

Back on topic, Vader's redemption is definitely sweeter when you've seen his turn came about through love becoming about power where his redemption comes through power becoming about love. It's also of course satisfying to see Sidious fail this time, ironically for similar reasons to how he machinated his ascension in the first place, Anakin's loyalty to the last Jedi (his son) as opposed to his loyalty to the last Sith (his father figure). Also, there is a nice mirror in Mace, at the crucial moment, being blind to Anakin's coming betrayal, where Sidious will repeat this mistake when trying to kill Luke. Imo Its very poetic.

 

I totally agree with you, and I also love how "It's a trap" or "Young fool, only now, at the end, do you understand" work in the context of the whole Saga.

It's obvious for me that ROTJ benefits the most from the PT: without the PT, the main villain of the movie (the Emperor) comes a bit out of the blue, and the ultimate hero (it's Vader who finally kills the Emperor and saves the day) was a villain in the previous movies. But the PT establishes both the main villain and the ultimate hero of ROTJ, making the movie much more rewarding.

 

I like that this is the only film series where we have a character that is both a hero and a villain.

 

Agreed. There is also Yoda saying "Strong am I with the force, but not that strong" about cheating death, which is a great link to what the Sith see as the ultimate power in the prequels. And Luke's confidence about the situation with Jabba echoes Qui-Gon's (and other Jedis') confidence in the prequels. Plus there is R2 being confident in Luke's abilities (Threepio: "I wish I had your confidence") which kind of reflects he still has his prequel memories.

Yeah, the prequels certainly match ROTJ better than the other OT eps. It doesn't make ROTJ better or worse, just... different.

 

I do believe they sort of make the ROTJ better (in the context of the saga of course). A lot of people considered that ROTJ wasn't as good as the previous two, and I think one of the reasons for that was that the climax of the trilogy wasn't about Luke destroying Vader (as one would have guessed based on the previous movies), but about Vader/Anakin destroying The Emperor (a character who had only appeared in one scene until then).

And at the same time, the prequels make episodes 4 (and perhaps 5) work slightly worse (again, in the context of a big unified saga).

 

If anything, the PT made the ROTJ redemption less powerful for me as I liked Anakin less after watching the prequels.

 

Well, but obvioulsy, that wasn't the intention of the prequels. Whether they succeeded or not, Anakin was depicted as a tragic hero.

 

Yeah true. I think they still work symbolically though, ESB particularly still continues with some of the themes of Rots. Anh does create problems with consistency, particularly in Obi-wan's dialogue. One line that takes me out a bit is "He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did". This is nothing like what we see in the prequels. I guess you have to use your imagination a bit. Anh is a fitting "up" ending after Rots however. I also think Obi-wan's final confrontation with Vader could easily have been written as a direct sequel to Rots, it signs off that arc beautifully.

 

Do we need the backstory, do we not need the backstory, - that's irrelevent! We need the 1, 2, and 3 to go with the 4, 5, and 6 or else the Star Wars saga would be stuck with the blemish of being incomplete for all time. Nobody, especially not GL, is holding their breath for our opinions on the matter.

 

I don't believe that the Prequel Trilogy was necessary.

Nor do I believe that "The Empire Strikes Back" and "Return of the Jedi" were necessary. Come to think of it, I don't believe that "A New Hope" was necessary.

But I am more than glad that Lucas made all six movies.

 

I think we're to infer that during the twenty years between ROTS and ANH, that Obi-wan's interactions with Owen is where he gleans that Owen felt that Anakin shouldn't have gotten involved because it lead to the rise of the Empire. The dialogue was originally written with an actual confrontation in mind, but the way it is now still works.

Killing and molesting children is a big no no, in our society. It is one of those things that is so appalling to think about, that to see it even implied, leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. But Lucas was right to have it. We're not supposed to like Anakin in the strictest sense. We're supposed to be appalled by his actions in ROTS. We're seeing why Obi-wan gave up on Anakin. Why there is such a tinge of sadness when he talks about the old days. They're mad because they probably did like Anakin, but then seeing the reality of who and what he was, was a slap in the face.

 

Lucas is being too literal minded in that interview. We didn't need to see any back story. I still think that Lucas should have continued on with Episode 7, instead of giving us every single detail of Anakin Skywalker's fall from grace. What's more, the quirkiness and subversive quality in Lucas's decision to begin the series in medias res with Episode IV would have been preserved--not to mention the big reveal that Vader was Luke's father and that the little green man Yoda was the greatest Jedi around. These elements were no small things back in the day, in that they imbued the series with the charm, mystique, and originality that separated SW from the rest of the pack. These elements were completely were erased with the PT.

 

Then he would have been named Darth Lector by the Emperor. I ate some younglings with some fava beans and nice chianti......

 

Really? You still get a big reveal, just a different one, and Yoda is still the greatest Jedi around!

 

What's the big reveal now in regards to Yoda? That he's a hermit? I need to sit down and watch the entire trilogy again, all 6 episodes in tandem, this Thanksgiving Break.

 

No, I meant the big reveal if you watch in I-VI order is Palpatine = the Sith.

 

Ah you jest.


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I wish I could have been this articulate about my thoughts. And I agree.


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Anakin's an interesting type of hero -- he is, essentially, a "war hero," the poster boy for the Republic's efforts. It's not hard to see why: the opening scene of ROTS is basically a long demonstration of this, as Obi-Wan says:

"Let us not forget that you rescued me from the buzz droids. And you killed Count Dooku. And you rescued the Chancellor, carrying me unconscious on your back...Anakin, let's be fair. Today, you were the hero and you deserve your glorious day with the politicians."

Now, how much of that is deserved is debatable. In the strictest sense, Anakin fits the definition of a hero (someone who is admired for courage and outstanding achievements), but at the same time, the man has a lot of skeletons in his closet. It's a fascinating interplay, in my opinion.

 

I can't believe people need George to literally spell this out for them

 

But then again, the Anakin/Vader of ROTJ wasn't the hero of the story, nor any 'Chosen One'....