ST Star Wars Episode 7 Plot Ideas

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Sounds a lot like C'Baoth to me!

 

My problem with Plagueis? Hmm ...

First off, Ioved the Plagueis novel. Definitely one of my favourite Star Wars books. And I don't have an issue with the villain being a powerful Sith - indeed, I say s/he needs to be to face off against Luke and there be any kind of tension (assuming there will be a duel with Luke). What I don't want is another arms race to be THE most powerful Force user ever.

Oh, and usually I like there being one overarching villain. It's a good way to show that there is cause and effect to everything that happens, rather than just "this bad guy showed up, then a week later this other bad guy showed up". It's one of the reasons The Spectacular Spider-Man is my favourite adaptation of the web-slinger.

However, in spite of all this, I think I'd rather not see Plagueis. Purely for the fact that we've already had a "mastermind who was behind everything the whole time" plot with Palpatine. Having another genius behind him is not only redundant, it stretches believability.

Of course, it's possible that they could use Darth Plagueis and craft a really awesome story around him. I mean, he's better than 99% of the villians people have suggested, I'm not sure they will use him though - we fans love him, but I can't imagine anyone else would remember him. And you'd need a damn good explanation of how immortality works for him and not anyone else.

(Wow, that really got me thinking. Great question Immortiss, thanks. )

 

Thanks for your sincerity in answering the question.

I agree with parts of your objections. It has some risks, no doubt. That being said, I'm a fan of The Plague (He go Da mask).

 

So what would be opposite, or at least, different from the Mastermind? Something more like what you don't like in Spiderman: villains coming out of the woodwork. Personally I like that too because sometimes the world really is just chaos.

So what about multiple Sith battling for the right to carry on the mantle of the Sith? They all want to be the next Master, not the apprentice? Then maybe we end up with a Master?

And maybe this master doesn't want to repeat the Rule of Two and hide in order to take power, but to overtly make a claim for it?

Just some ideas.

 

The Death Star was a fantastic plot device. So was the carbon freeze chamber on the Cloud City of Bespin. Carbon freezing a beloved hero. How did he even come up with that? How in the hell is the ST going to top any of that? What other ideas could Lucas cull that are that fantastic? IHKI.

 

An interesting way of looking at the time transition from the OT to the ST is to look at the relationships between WWII and the problems in the middle east.

Some say that the ST should mirror the cold war. I disagree. I think the middle east comparisons may be more striking.

At the end of WWII there was a reestablishment of the world order. In hopes to find peace for those who became displaced during the war, new nation states were established. Due to stark and VERY long lasting contrasts and conflicts in religion and world views, these political borders have resulted in many years of bloodshed and horror. This horror has spread throughout the entire world.

This would be a controversial parallel, but may be more symbolic. It could also create a sense of an unseen enemy or one that is not easily fought due to its nomadic type of existence. All the while the enemy is being guided by another more pressing enemy bent on revenge and galactic destruction. Could the two enemies fighting over their long lasting struggles come together to defeat the true darkness?

 

A lot of interesting ideas here! I especially like the rhyming image to ANH of the larger Republic vessel dwarfing the Star Destroyer. That image right there alone tells us everything we need to know about the plot.

I also like the idea of darkness being banned, and how that can lead to the Jedi themselves. Another rhyming element, this time with Rebels, that tells an important truth: no matter who is in charge, demagogues will rise and try to use some out group (other) to empower them.

 

I thought the borders were drawn after WWI, not WWII.

 

Good points. And this plot is also strong because it focuses the Jedi (and Republic) on how to proceed ethically in the future as an Order. How are they to treat grey areas? Consider them innocent until proven guilty of some crime, or just wipe them out, all of them?

One of the main things I'm wanting (not just hoping for) in the ST is to see Luke and the Jedi struggle with the question of how to be different from the old Order while not self-destructing from the new ways.

 

Isn't this sort of what GL did in the PT? With the exception of Darth Sidious, he sort of pulled Sith Lords out of the blue in both TPM and AOTC. This is one reason why the first two prequels didn't quite have the dramatic tension that either ANH or TESB had, both of these movies having featured one big baddie at the forefront of the action, from start to finish, one movie to the next. (Though I did like Maul's brand of menace in TPM. We should have seen more of him in Episode II!) In AOTC, in particular, the heroes--namely Obi-wan and Anakin, spend their time battling the likes of Sandpeople and bounty hunters. Badasses though these villains might have been (at some point), they didn't exactly compare to the threat posed by Vader.

Anyway. Point being that a Sith "master mind" might be unavoidable where the real question as to who the new baddie will be concerns having to figure out who the Sith apprentice will be and what his or her deal might be in respect to the latter.

 

I hardly ever post, but one thing I would like to see, and I wouldnt be surprised if it was done...

After an opening battle where the New Republic captures or boards a rogue Star Destroyer...

Guess who walks through the boarding hatch after the ship is secured?... Luke in flowing robes... emerging through smoke... just like Darth Vader at the beginning of ANH..

Full circle... I'd freak out with delight

 

Good question. Cynical answer: Who knows what GL was doing in the PT? Most of it doesn't make sense.

Serious answer: The films make it look as though Sidious is doing the Rule of Two, but that he's open to playing his apprentice against a potential apprentice when the opportunity rises (Anakin vs Dooku).

In the EU books, however, according to some of my friends here, Plagueis had abandoned the Rule of Two by the time of TPM and the result seemed to be Sidious killing him. So at that point, we have no idea how wedded Sidious is to the Rule, or if he just uses it sort of loosely for his own reasons. Now with the appearance of The Inquisitor in Rebels, it seems more and more that the Rule is either possibly abolished, or something that Sidious just works around as he sees fit.

I hope that in the ST we see more of an overt struggle between darksiders for the title of Master. I want to see a scene with 3 or more Sith fighting for supremacy.

 

Contact Arndt.

 

Dra--- Yes!!! In fact, I would have lived to have seen more of this in the PT. but so be it. We get some of it in the OT (As I'm sure that both Vader and Sidious are aware of the the Rule of Two, they're both essentially playing a game of cat and mouse with eaxh other in regards to trying to turn Luke into a "great asset," to use Sidious's own term.)

 

I agree. I argued a few weeks back that this scene is proof the Rule is not really a rule anymore.

 

I'm no authority, but as I understand the Rule of Two, the Sith Master and Apprentice may use other dark side force sensitives to get the business of the Sith Empire moving along, closer to its goals. Therefore, we see the likes of Ventress, the Inquisitorius members and Janus Grajeetus, who was one of the Emperor's dignitaries on the Second Death Star. All of these personages are force-sensitive, but never formally made a Sith Lord. FWIW.

 

I'm no authority, but as I understand the Rule of Two, the Sith Master and Apprentice may use other dark side force sensitives to get the business of the Sith Empire moving along, closer to its goals. Therefore, we see the likes of Ventress, the Inquisitorius members and Janus Grajeetus, who was one of the Emperor's dignitaries on the Second Death Star. All of these personages are force-sensitive, but never formally made a Sith Lord. FWIW.[/quote]

It would have been nice, if perhaps implausible, given how ancient the Sith is supposed to be, if Palpatine/Sidious himself had invented thus Rule of Two during the PT. >=]

 

It would have been nice, if perhaps implausible, given how ancient the Sith is supposed to be, if Palpatine/Sidious himself had invented thus Rule of Two during the PT. >=][/quote]

Funny enough, Sidious nearly made the Rule obsolete by establishing the Second Sith Empire, which is supposed to last for a millenia or more, but we all know how that worked out. I'm not EU savvy and am unable to pass judgement on any of it, but I've read Darth Plagueis, which is an exceptional book that deserves to be held apart from the kind of EU I hear trash talk about all over the boards. If you are ever interested in the History of the Sith, it is must reading. I have no problem with pre-TPM EU continuity. It's great stuff.

 

[/quote]This political or military figure would be an important secondary character used to show that evil can come in many different forms and not all of them have crazy Force powers. I also like the idea that it's the good guys own actions that force evil to reveal itself again. They try to stamp out evil but it only makes things far worse. Something the Old Republic and Jedi realized when they tried to eradicate the Sith. It only drove them into hiding and they returned stronger than ever. History repeating itself? I would like to see Luke trying to find another route.[/quote]

Are you basing this on the rumored casting list? I think there's a call for an actor to fill the role of an older, grizzled military-type. (It'd be cool of they hired a Japanese actor or someone else in this role in homage to the samurai movies of old.) Maybe this character could be a secret Force user, having hidden his Force abilities during the OT. He'd play a big role in the story, maybe an ambiguous one.

 

[/quote]It would have been nice, if perhaps implausible, given how ancient the Sith is supposed to be, if Palpatine/Sidious himself had invented thus Rule of Two during the PT. >=][/quote]

Funny enough, Sidious nearly made the Rule obsolete by establishing the Second Sith Empire, which is supposed to last for a millenia or more, but we all know how that worked out. I'm not EU savvy and am unable to pass judgement on any of it, but I've read Darth Plagueis, which is an exceptional book that deserves to be held apart from the kind of EU I hear trash talk about all over the boards. If you are ever interested in the History of the Sith, it is must reading. I have no problem with pre-TPM EU continuity. It's great stuff.[/quote]

I was about to ask which EU book was must have. Thanks.

 

Right. That pretty much seems to be the given or accepted interpretation, but I would argue that this undermines the meaning and spirit of the Rule of Two. If the Rule was originally created to protect a master from apprentices with a hunger for more power, the minute you open the door to other darkside users, you're essentially creating apprentices in the darkside who will hunger for power. It doesn't really matter if you call them Sith or not; as Yoda says, once you start on the path of the darkside, forever will it rule your destiny. Well, these darksiders are out there practicing evil all the time, why wouldn't they begin to hunger for more power? They're not stupid; they know that the ones with more power are Vader and Sidious. So I think this loose version of the Rule of Two is not really a rule in practice but in name only, and these darksiders are also Sith but Sith by a different name. The point is: here we have a hierarchy of the darkside, and the only thing that would, in practice, stop the darksiders low on the totem pole from trying to rise would be the actions of Vader and Sidious themselves; not the rule.

 

[/quote]The minute you open the door to other darkside users, you're essentially creating apprentices in the darkside who will hunger for power. It doesn't really matter if you call them Sith or not; as Yoda says, once you start on the path of the darkside, forever will it rule your destiny. Well, these darksiders are out there practicing evil all the time, why wouldn't they begin to hunger for more power? They're not stupid; they know that the ones with more power are Vader and Sidious. So I think this loose version of the Rule of Two is not really a rule in practice but in name only, and these darksiders are also Sith but Sith by a different name. The point is: here we have a hierarchy of the darkside, and the only thing that would, in practice, stop the darksiders low on the totem pole from trying to rise would be the actions of Vader and Sidious themselves; not the rule.[/quote]

Theoretically this sort of thing can happen among the Jedi themselves. Yet the Jedi have no Rule of Two. I think you're talking about Dark Jedi. I think it'd be cool in th ST if a small group of Sith, led by an idealistic Dark Sider (maybe an anti-hero (another anti-hero?!)) decided to throw caution to the wind and dispose of the Rule of Two all together. A more cynical Palpatine-type of master mind (maybe a female Palpatine!), who might not even be an official Sith to begin with, would be observing and studying this developing train wreck from afar and ultimately emerge from the shadows as a full-blown Sith to impose the Rule of Two once more. This is the kind of process I would have liked to have seen in Palpatine/Sidious during the PT. >=)