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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT George Lucas, Post-ROTJ, states beautifully why the Prequels were necessary

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Han Burgundy, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2005
    That's irrelevant to me. Regardless of whether Anakin is the Saga's redeemed Chosen One or ROTJ's redeemed villain, he's still redeemed. And that was a mistake on Lucas's part. We should never have been given a glimpse of Anakin in ghost form. All it says is that a mass-murderer, torturer, sadist (and yes, child killer, which I had already suspected based on his despicable nature in ANH and TESB) ascended to Jedi Heaven just for saving his own kid's life.

    The redemption sucked in '83, and it still sucks now.
     
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  2. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    There's no real evidence of this. In fact, we hear that Qui-Gon ( as a ghost example ) has "returned".
     
  3. Carbon1985

    Carbon1985 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2013
    Lucas should have only had Kenobi and Yoda as force ghosts that Luke see's at the end of ROTJ, that way we would all look at Anakin's redemption a much different way. He saved his son, he killed The Emperor, he talked to his son without his mask on, but he was not redeemed as a force ghost like Yoda and Kenobi so there is a consequence to your actions. The final image of Vader dying in the bonfire funeral as Luke looked on would have worked much better.
     
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  4. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    I could listen to George talk all day
     
  5. drg4

    drg4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Beautifully stated, Carbon 1985. Actions carry consequences.

    It's absolutely frustrating that Lucas and Co. could have ended the series with gentle, noble ambiguity, rather than the morally-queasy sentimentality that drips through the coda. "And Darth Vader lived happily ever after..."
     
  6. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    [​IMG]
    Like dying, for example.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2012
    I'm no expert as I don't share this belief, but my understanding is that in Christianity--or Catholicism, anyway--if you repent & accept Jesus, you're going to go to heaven, regardless of your crimes. Anakin turned to "the light," so he gets redeemed. Very similar thing.
     
  8. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    Everyone who dies transforms into the Force, not just good guys. There is no heaven, just the "netherworld".
    Retaining your identity as a ghost, on the other hand, is a special thing - though I'd argue that it isn't all that great. It should get tedious after a while, since you can't do much more than talk to Force users. Eventually, you'll want to just let go and move on to the netherworld of the Force.
    Anakin's ultimate fate isn't any greater than yours or mine, when you think about it.





    - Where is Padmé?
    - Destroyed, by the Empire.

    /LM
     
  9. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Which is why I'd think it'd be interesting if part the ST took place in the "netherworld".
     
  10. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    It's not just that he saved Luke's life, but that he had been a good man once before he did all of that. Luke helped Anakin to free himself from the shackles of the evil that he had become and return to being the good man that he was again. Obi-wan and Yoda helped Anakin to regain his corporal form so that Luke could see the end result of what he had accomplished.

    In the rough draft…Ben explains that…if "Vader becomes one with the dark side of the Force, he will lose all identity. If he turns to the good side, he will pass through the Netherworld" and in the revised rough draft, Yoda "will rescue him before he becomes one with the Force."

    --Lorenzo Bouzereau, explanation from Star Wars The Annotated Screenplays page 300.

    "This little scene where he burns his father's body, it wasn't originally in the script. But I decided it gave more closure in terms of Luke's relationship to his father, letting go of his father. Even though later on, as we get to the end of the movie, as he joins the Force, he was able to retain his original identity, it's because of Obi-Wan and Yoda, who learnt how to do that: how to join the Force at will and then retain your identity. But it was his 'identity as he was when he died as Anakin Skywalker.'"

    --George Lucas, ROTJ DVD Commentary.


    Actually, you can blame someone else for that. It was Howard Kazanjian who came up with the idea in the first place, of having Anakin be with the others and that lead to Lucas ultimately embracing the idea.

    Not just that, but it is in other religious forms.

    "In addition to the Zen-like Force that "surrounds us and penetrates us...(and) binds the galaxy together," as Obi-wan tells Luke, another Eastern religious element can be found in Vader's resemblance to demons that, in the Buddhist tradition, were at one time human and, through the actions of Buddha or his followers, are freed from their demonic state.

    They usually wind up dying and through death are released from their demonic state. Again, that's a parallel to Vader, who is only freed at the point of his death."

    --Shanti Fader, USA Today article and "Star Wars And Philosophy."
     
  11. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Guest appearance by Beetlejuice!!
     
  12. Lars_Muul

    Lars_Muul Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 2, 2000
    You and me both, IATI!





    - Can I have one of those?
    - Hmm! Not likely.

    /LM
     
  13. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Oh you mean Palpatine?
     
  14. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 28, 2013
    So that's his first name.
     
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  15. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    No his name is Paul. Paul Franklin Palpatine
     
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    His first name was something so ****ing awful that it made him to turn to the Dark Side and Force-lightning anyone who ever mentioned it.

    Fill in the blank here.
     
  17. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Harry Plinkett.
     
  18. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Star Wars is sort of meant to be a fairy tale; and ROTJ is the fairy-tale ending.

    Darth Vader is a cosmogenic entity that only lives if you watch I-VI on a loop.

    Following these propositions, it's acceptable, even desirable, that Anakin gets a shot at immortality, once he has journeyed to the underworld and back.

    That's my take, anyway.


    Fire and water.

    Anima/animus.

    Nice.
     
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  19. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

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    Nov 20, 2012
    Leslie? Francis?
     
  20. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012

    Bob
     
  21. TOSCHESTATION

    TOSCHESTATION Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2003
    "A Boy Named________"

    (Johnny Cash reference)
     
  22. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
  23. El Jedi Colombiano

    El Jedi Colombiano Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Sue
     
  24. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer #1 Sabine Wren Fan star 7

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    Mar 26, 2013
    Your logic has completely won this thread. ^:)^
     
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  25. SithStarSlayer

    SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Which will we get first, Yoda's species or Sid's real first name?:p
     
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