Amph "If You Seek His Monument, Look Around You" - The Man of Steel and Announced Sequel Thread

The best was undoubtedly "Watch him honor them both as he shows off his super powers while letting innocent people die."

 

Did anyone notice insignificant cast members of Smallville having cameos in MOS? Emil Hamilton in Smallville is Emil Hamilton's assistant in MOS. And Old Dying Clone of Lex in Smallville is Zod's henchman with a medical degree in MOS.

 

I loved that, but The2ndQuest is right -- the dubstep thing made me laugh for like 3-5 minutes straight. At a time when I sorrrrrrrrrely needed it.

 

Or, "...his inevitable dark, moody Christopher Nolan update." Or, "...D.C. has the reboot for you, psycho!"

 

[Sarcasm] The trailer and its comments are so terribly unfair. This movie is so sorely misunderstood. [/sarcasm]

 

QFT

 

So is Superman even going to have a Fortress of Solitude in the next one? Because the old one got sucked into hell.

 

No, and he's not even going to have a space-dad to get advice from with the key and his pod being gone too.

 

That trailer made me laugh out loud several times. Awesome stuff.

 

Well I bet Russell Crowe is bummed that he can't come back now.

 

A John Byrne and Jerry Ordway one. It was Byrne's last scripted story from his Post Crisis run on the Superman books.

If he does, it'll have to be a man made one like it is most of the time in the comics and in the DCAU.

 

You know, I have to ask this: Since when is Superman meant to be "God"? Or even a demigod that can save everyone or otherwise simply not let any people die in the midst of any one disaster such as, for example, some of his homeboys coming to Earth to terraform it and in the process destroy a major metropolitan area? Or any of the other myriad major events/disasters throughout his comic book history. When his daddy told him "You can save everyone", I shook my said and pretty much said "no, he can't". No one can. No one has that kind of power. Not even bloody Superman. Countless innocents have died and will continue to die regardless in whichever story the screenwriter(s) or comic book writer(s) cook up for any of his ongoing adventures even though he is the paragon of DC's metahuman pantheon. So, as you can see, I really can't understand the indignation or the utter fallacy of the statement that he let so many innocent people die.

 

It technically started in the mid 40's, by the point in which Superman started to become an icon and by which point that his success rate in saving lives would be much higher than otherwise. By the mid 50's, due to the Comics Code, Superman had to always defeat or capture the bad guys in some form or fashion. And his failures were practically nil. The Post Crisis Era brought in the notion that Superman has limits and thus he couldn't always save the day. In terms of the Christ allegory, it took off with the Donner film as the film used religious and mythological elements. In relation to Jor-El's motivational speech, he's telling Clark that he can save the world from being destroyed. Granted, it comes across as every single human life, but I believe it's really about preventing the terraforming from being completed and the annihilation of all human life. Which does happen, even though five thousand people were killed in Metropolis.

 

5,000 people? Where did you get that number? It seems awfully low considering the damage caused.

 

Robo-Russell Crowe didn't want to tell his son "You can save her. You can save a select group of people because unfortunately, this whole world machine is seriously going to **** things up in the long run." because he was afraid that Supes would start crying and stay on the ship for the rest of the day. So, he pulled random statistics out of his butt.

 

Snyder talked about it during the Q&A last weekend about MOS and the upcoming film.

 

My beef isn't that he doesn't save everyone. I don't expect him to. My beef is that unlike Reeve's Superman in Superman II, who realized that he should take the fight elsewhere for the safety of bystanders and lures the Kryptonians to his fortress, Cavill's Superman doesn't really seem to even think about where he's doing his fighting, much less care.

The hilarious thing is that he tells people to "get inside", so that they'll be safe (presumably). He then proceeds to hurl his enemies into buildings every chance he gets.

 

They should've fought on the moon to pay homage to Superman IV.

 

Basically this. Or even if he didn't try to move the fight, he could have been more conscientious about bystanders. He wasn't. We aren't asking for him to succeed so much as simply try.

 

This is going to go round the mulberry bush one more time, but I think if you're going to criticise Cavill's Superman that harshly, you have to apply the same level of scrutiny to Reeve's Superman in II. In both cases neither comes out terribly concerned with civilian lives in the sense of thinking ahead about potential risk to them. Supes in S2 asks Zod whether he'd like to step outside (one of the great lines in the movie, I might add) but there then follows assorted throwing of Kryptonians through occupied buildings and so on. Superman does save a few more people on screen, yes, but he doesn't take the fight away from the city until the end of the sequence. That suggests Reeverman has made a calculated risk about fighting three Kryptonians in a built-up area, and only when the risks become overwhelming does he decide to head north. If so, that's a pretty cold sort of decision (EDIT: to start the fight in an occupied area to begin with) or it evinces a much more experienced Superman than we see in MoS - the fact that Reeverman believes he can control the fight so no civilians are harmed has to be in his mind if he's concerned about civilian safety.

EDIT: I also don't remember Cav-El throwing Kryptonians through buildings during the fight in Smallville after he tells people to get inside. Faora and friend do that a bit, yes, but Cav-El's throws are usually in reaction to them. Telling someone to get inside isn't a bad idea at that particular moment since Cav-El thinks he's going to fight the Kryptonians on the street; if they're outside, the humans are much more vulnerable to stuff getting thrown around at them.

Cavill's Superman doesn't really think about where he's doing his fighting because he's had a minimum of a day wearing the tights or a maximum of a few weeks. He hasn't had to fight using these powers before. He is a rookie. That is writ large throughout MoS. But even then, it's at least arguable that Cav-El does try to take the fight out of Metropolis -- into orbit, where they hit the Wayne Enterprises satellite. From memory it's Cav-El who pulls Zod into orbit and Zod who drives the fight back into the city again.

 

What the Sainty-fresh one said.

You have to assume this is Superman Year One AND that Reeverman didn't exist. The MOS sequel should be TDK-levels of awesome (so, better than Spiderman II...........) because they've done the origin story for this generation.

YEAH.

 

Ender, you just took me right back to Rocky Balboa.

 

Except there's a critical flaw here, guys. Uniquely, in this film, literally the only reason anyone is anywhere on Earth at all is to fight him. If Kal-El wants them to move away, all he has to do is leave. Whereas, in the Reeve superman films, other Kryptonians were trying to take over the world, so running away would be a simple surrender that doesn't require further engagement at all.

 

Not in Zod's case after the World Engine and his ship was destroyed. He explicitly said he'd kill the humans one by one since that was all the purpose he had left. Kal-El leaving would have endangered even more civilians because Zod would have just murdered as many as he could set his hands on.

Prior to the destruction of the World Engine, Faora tells Cav-El quite explicitly "For each one you save, we will kill a million more." Whether that's as a consequence of the World Engine or literal is immaterial; they are here to commit genocide -- specifically identified by Russ-El and assented to by Zod -- not only fight Cav-El. Cavill's Superman has no choice but to engage them.

in S2, the Terrenzod gets bored with world domination, seems rather more interested in fighting Kal-El than running the world as such after he makes the President kiss his ring, which is indeed the only reason the Kryptonians pursue the Reeverman back to the Fortress.