ST The Orphan

True.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that Leia isn't an example of a strong character worthy of the title "hero". But as Dra--- said, there's a difference between a hero and a main character. There can be a multitude of protagonists and hero characters in a movie, and that's certainly true of Star Wars. But the films inevitably focus on the journey of one central character, and that character has as of yet never been a female. I'm not a fan of many of the theories being thrown around in this thread, but I am definitely in agreement that a female lead would be a good thing at this point in time, due in no small part that I'm raising a girl who will be 9 when Episode VII is released. I've only just shown her the entire saga so far, and while she loves the characters of Padme and Leia, I think she was a little disappointed with their stories and would love to see a female in a larger role for the next trilogy.

 

I agree, but you try and step up and defend Star Wars, and your name gets dragged through the mud. What can you do?

 

The problem with this line of thinking is that the Star Wars saga no longer consists of six movies, and therefore ROTJ is no longer the climax. Just by making VII-IX they are undoing that climax.

 

See, I'm coming from the point of just having spent five years watching every TCW episode as it premiered, which offered hours upon hours of female protagonists in Star Wars stories. The "newness" factor for fans of the films, exclusively, is lost almost completely on me because between the films, TCW, comics, video games, novels and all the rest, I've been treated to a multitude of female lead characters in SW for decades (even if one splits hairs between ensemble lead and protagonist). You know, Carrie and Harrison, Ewan and Natalie all shared top "starring" billing alongside Mark and Hayden. If one wants to say "female protagonist," even, there is more room for argument, but Leia and Padme are lead characters (whether one cares to admit it to oneself, or not).

That's the best reason for making sure all genders and races are involved. I have a young daughter who loves SW, too, though she seems to love most characters equally, free of any disappointment.

 

I showed my stepdaughter the TCW movie, and she couldn't care less about Ahsoka. She spent the whole movie asking when Padme would show up. In fact the only thing she really responded to in a positive way was the baby Hutt. Maybe she's still a bit too young for it, which is ironic considering all the initial criticisms about it being aimed for a young audience, but I don't think I could even get her to give the rest of the series a chance at this point. As for the rest of the EU, that's definitely off the table. And for the record, I'm all for more racial equality as well as gender equality in these movies, despite the fact that my daughter bemoans the fact that there are no females with blonde hair like hers anywhere to be seen in the entire saga.

 

This is very succinctly put and exactly where I'm coming from. I want a female protagonist and a female antagonist. That's fine if others don't, but I'm certainly allowed to argue for my own view. And I won't be angry if there is a male lead, but I will be disappointed if they miss the opportunity of having one of the leads be female.

I also don't believe there are too many female leads in film today. Even if there were more female leads than male, this kind of point ignores the history of film and the way women have been represented historically. And because of the historical context, which should be obvious to anyone paying attention, I tend to believe that people who think there are too many female leads must have some kind of bias or axe to grind. That's my right to judge people this way, and if they don't like it, perhaps they should argue less strongly against female leads. But this is a topic for another thread, correct?

Back on topic:

I'm wondering if anyone else likes the idea of a Sith becoming a Jedi? A Sith (orphan) who has always been a Sith?

 

And generally speaking (no personal attacks here) it's my right to consider anyone who generically lumps people together like that, regardless of context, not to mention sharing opinions on what and how members should post, as dangerous and sanctimonious, regardless of how they feel about it, too. And if they don't like it, then that's on them, and not up to me to tell them how to feel or act about it. But then, I'm not in the habit of acting like a Nazi, either. Oh, and I never once argued against "more female leads." Only that a female villain would be preferable, as we've not yet seen it. Reading comprehension, folks! It's invaluable!

But hey, that's a conversation for another time.

Back on topic:

I think the idea of a Sith becoming a Jedi is trite and uninspired (not to mention it was already one of the worst things about TFU I - and I actually liked that game, and Marek's character, in general).

 

Perhaps you two should take it to a PM and discuss your differences. I find both of you to be quite intelligent and likable.

I am in the habit of acting like a fascist, but that's for another discussion, entirely.

Back on topic:

I'd prefer a female orphan, distrustful and selfish, but learns to be benevolent.

 

I agree with this. Unlike Anakin, who began selfless and became more selfish and distrustful over time, I'd like to see someone who starts out with these qualities and has to learn a better way, with their allegiance being tested and in question until they finally make the choice to be on the side of good. An outright Sith would be taking it too far in my opinion.

 

Thank you, and you are right, there's no call for derailing the thread. But taking it anywhere sounds like a boring sort of punishment. If certain people would simply not have made it personal, everything would have been good. And then if it hadn't been brought up time and again, it could have been dropped, too. Nothing would please me more than to see this type of nonsense go the way of the Dodo.

I like the idea of "Rachael" (I'm still not convinced that the "orphan" tag is legit) as a mistrustful loner, who had to struggle to survive, overcoming these obstacles and becoming the better person for it.

edit: Though again, if she really is an orphan, or if "Thomas" really is fatherless, then I don't support the idea of either one being the protagonist. As you know, I prefer the children of the Big3 fill this role (preferably as dual protagonists, in a "Ben and Jaina," scenario).

 

I just don't see Hamill or Fisher turning down what would be the biggest payday of their careers. My worry is Harrison Ford, but he certainly seems open to doing the sequels. I honestly believe that if he didn't want to do them, he would emphatically say so at every chance instead of his playing coy when asked.

I really think it is necessary to bring all 3 back. How could you bring 1 or 2 back without the other(s)? It would be pretty disappointing if we had to get a "so-and-so died 10 years ago" line of dialog type of thing like we see in sequels every now and then.

 

I agree, and as to the bolded section, I'd say that Luke, more so than Leia or Han, is instrumental in advancing the saga, based upon the story so far.

But yeah, talk about disappointing if they're not all there.

 

As I posted yesterday in the casting speculation thread John Williams inadevertantly and indirectly confirmed Harrison Ford's involvement in the ST by stating that he's going to be scoring Indy 5.

As for anyone believing that Disney would pay the Big 3 HUGE money to come in to do voice overs is completely ignorant of how Hollywood movies work -- Harrison Ford doesn't get 20 mil to do voice overs. And as Darth Chiznuk stated several times there's more than enough documented evidence to state that the Big 3 are set to return as ACTORS, reprising their roles in the ST.

As for the topic at hand, I think SW and its fanbase can handle a female protagonist or two as well as a female villain all in the same movie. I've said it before but I'll say it again, I was a little disappointed when Asajj Ventress was NOT in ROTS, after seeing the concept art for her. I thought she would've made a terrific Sith apprentice to "seduce" Anakin to the Dark Side.

 

How about this? We stay on topic or the next person who makes any snide remark in regards to a mod edit or towards another member or personal attack is going to take a time out? You've already had one mod warning in this thread, this is the final one. Thank you any questions or concerns about it, you can pm me about it or use the report button. Thank you.

 

Wow, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand there fast.

Orphan

 

The big-3 returning is really the worst kept secret involved in this project, so I'm not worried about it. There may be some final issues to be ironed out, so nobody wants to make any official announcement in the meantime, but I would be incredibly surprised if we don't get the big-3. And Chewie. And 3PO. And R2.

 

I loved Ventress in TCW and I look forward to hopefully seeing more of her in Rebels. In fact, it's largely the image of Asajj that's in my mind when I mention having a female big bad in the ST.

 

When I first saw Ventress in the CW microseries, I wasn't a fan. But her story in TCW turned me around on her and I'd love to see what's in store for her character next. The only complaint I have is that due to her being in CW and the comics, she never got a proper introduction in TCW, which I think would have served her well. So I'd be all for a female villain in the ST as well, but if I had to choose between that and a female protagonist, I'd choose the latter.

 

My daughter loves TCW and she's always asking to watch the films.

Maybe she's too young to care about any differences between genders, race, ethnicities, etc. (and I try to encourage her to enjoy whatever she will, regardless of gender stereotypes), but as I said, she seems to enjoy everyone equally. If I had to guess her favorite character as of late, it would be Mace Windu.

Maybe things will change as she grows older, but as of yet, there's not a thing about SW that's she's ever bemoaned. Ad when we "duel," she assigns the characters. One time, she'll be Ahsoka, the next time, maybe I will be. Sometimes she's Sidious, throwing "lightning" at me, sometimes she's Leia, going "Pew, pew" with her "blaster," and often she is Qui-Gon.

It's the cutest damn thing you ever saw, I tell you.

 

Trebor Sabreon that's awesome! I only really just got my stepdaughter into Star Wars last week. Sadly she seems less open-minded about people who look different than her, despite the fact that she has friends of different racial backgrounds. I do my best to guide her well, but unfortunately I have to split time with her racist father, and I'm guessing that has something to do with it. *sigh.* She's also just resistant to new things in general, so it was hard enough getting her to be open-minded about watching the movies in the first place. She's a good kid though and she has a good mom so I know with my help she'll turn out ok.

 

The names are interesting. Thomas, like Luke, is a New Testament name. 'Doubting Thomas'. Perhaps Luke's son is an apostate. Rachel is an Old Testament name. A slave girl. Abraham's mistress and mother of Ishamel. I don't know, just more thought for the food.