Reference The Game Group

And now, something a bit ... topical for thought and possibly comment. Reposting from a fellow named the Angry DM. It's for all the GMs out here. The rude words have been ... taken care of.




If you are a player, get lost. This is an open letter to Dungeon Masters, Game Masters, Watchers, Storytellers, Keepers, Game Trustees, and all other runners of role-playing games, regardless of title, game preference, style, or affiliation. If you’ve never sat behind the screen or you’ve sat there only once or twice and swore you’d never do it again, you have no business reading this. And no business responding to it.

And if you are a master of games and want to disagree with this, you are an enemy of the cause. Don’t bother. You will find no friends here. No allies. No sympathy. We don’t want to hear it.

Dear Master of Games,
You are different. You are special. And you should be proud of that. There is this oft-repeated maxim, especially among players but occasionally among games masters, that GMs are not really special and should not be elevated. This is a toxic, terrible attitude. It is wrong. You are special. And you have a right to be proud.

Whatever your style, whatever game you run, and however you do it, you love your game and you work hard to make it happen. Whether you sit for hours drawing maps or spend a few minutes dashing off some stat blocks between work and the game; whether you lose yourself in traffic fantasizing about some imagined city to bring to life in your game or just set your brain to racing trying to find a voice for an NPC in the scant seconds you have before you have to respond to a player; whether you labor over glue and paints and ceramic bits to build a sprawling model for one ten minute combat or you just weave a verbal description off the top of your head for every skirmish; you are special and you should be proud of what you do.

Without you, the game cannot happen. Without you, the best anyone can hope for is a board game. A video game. You make it possible for the players to make real choices, even if they haven’t been planned out in advance. You make it possible for the game to wander off in sudden, unexpected directions and to take on a life of its own. You give the world life and depth and vibrance. You do that.

GMs will argue endlessly about the best way to do this and that. They will argue about “yes, and…” and failing forward and binary rules and simulationism and player agency and binary outcomes and this will be good and that will be bad and the other is the only way to get players invested. And those arguments are so much noise and fury that signify nothing. They don’t matter. They are window dressing. They are bull****. And the more passionately you argue for one over the other, the more full of bull**** you are.

The best way to run a game is just to run a great game. And to run it passionately. To run it with love. I know that sounds like sentimental crap. But it is true. If you don’t love running your game, stop doing it. Because you will never make anyone happy. You will never make yourself happy.

I have been called a terrible, awful DM. I have been called that by other DMs. Because I am railroady. Because I keep a tight leash on world building. Because I am old fashioned and old school and don’t believe in player agency over the narrative. I have been called a bad DM because I encourage other DMs to set whatever restrictions on the game they think they need to ensure they love their game. But those people have never sat down at my table and played my game. The people who have played my game, they keep coming back. They don’t call me terrible or awful at all. Well, most of them don’t.

Look, it is going to happen. Eventually, you are going to do something or decide something and a player is going to object. You are going to place a restriction and a player is going to chafe at it. You are going to run a serious game and a player is going to try to inject ridiculous silliness. You’re eventually going to come up against one or more of your players.

And then, you have a choice to make. If you stand your ground, you may make the player unhappy. The player may become angry or disruptive. Or they may get over it and have fun anyway. Or they may walk away from the game forever. If they are a friend, you may lose that friend. Of course, if you give in on something you think is important, you may learn to live with it and keep loving your game. Or you may not. And you may lose the game.

And that is one of the hardest decisions a GM has to make. And no matter what anyone tells you, there is no pat, simple answer. There are those out there who will say the GM should always give in, that the GM’s love of the game and their sense of fun is always less important than that of the players. They will say the GM has a duty to give up his or her fun first for the sake of the players’ fun. And that is a stupid, stupid standpoint. I have nothing against compromise. I have nothing against making sacrifices for the players’ enjoyment. But the idea that that is always the only answer is moronic.

When you face this problem (and you will someday), be immediately suspicious of any GM who tells you which path you should choose. No one – NO ONE – can make that decision but you. Because you have to get through it with your love of the game intact. You have to love the game you are running. Sometimes, the right answer is to accept that you have a player whose style doesn’t work at your table. And that player needs to find another table. And you need to find another player.

And the fact that you even have to agonize over that choice – and it is an agony – is part of why you are special. And why you should be proud. Because no one else at the table has that weight on them. No one else voluntary carries that weight like you do. This is a ****ing game about elves pretending to kill orcs at a renaissance faire. On top of the work that is required just to make that game even happen, you have to worry about the fact that you might have to sacrifice your love of it or give up a friend forever. Holy ****.

That’s the thing. You can’t be a lazy GM. You can’t half-ass it. The longer you are at it, the more likely you are going to face one of those choices. Even if you manage the workload, even if you find all the tricks to focus only on the parts of the game you love, eventually, there is going to be a human conflict at the table and you will have to be the one to resolve it.

Sometimes, it sucks to be the GM.

Seriously. Sometimes you will have to do the game prep even when you don’t want to do it. Sometimes you will have to break up a fight between two players. Sometimes you will want to do anything but run a game, but you can’t bring yourself to ruin the night for five other people who are relying on you. Every decision you make affects every other person at the table. And if you don’t love doing it most of the time, eventually, all those suckages are going to add up. Sometimes, they add up even if you do love it. And you burnout. Or you quit.

And so, again, you are special. And you should be proud. Remember, your players do keep coming back. Every time they show up, they are electing you as their leader. The runner of the game. You are winning a popular vote every single game session. You are beating out other GMs and other games, but you are also beating out movies and video games and miniature golf and whatever other **** kids get up to these days. And that means you have built something great. Something worth being proud of. Even if you’ve done it through agency and delegation and collaboration, you have still made that happen. It isn’t easy to get people to work together. It isn’t easy to direct people toward a unifed whole. And you’ve done it. You.

You are special. And you should be proud.

And every GM should be willing to tell every other GM: “you are special and you should be proud.” Because the players won’t always say it, even if they are thinking it. Any GM who tells you that the GM is nothing special and the GM’s happiness is less important than the players is a bad GM. Not an ally. Not a friend. Because we all face the same things.

However we run our games, whatever choices we make as GMs, they are between us and our players. And they are personal choices. But all GMs are on the same side. We need to stick together. And we need to love our games. And we need to tell each other: “you are special and you should be proud.”
Yes. Anyone COULD be a GM. But you actually ARE a GM. Anyone COULD do a lot of things. But only a select few choose to do it. And fewer still stick with it when it gets rough. The special people are not the people who could do things. The special people are the people who do do things.

You are special. And you should be proud. And don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise.

Sincere Regards,
The Angry DM

 

But seriously - the how doesn't matter as long as it works for you.

 

Great re-post Saintheart!

 

Ditto, thank you for putting that up, Saintheart. I'm going to get pashatemur to come over and read that.

You are winning a popular vote every single game session. You are beating out other GMs and other games, but you are also beating out movies and video games and miniature golf and whatever other **** kids get up to these days.

Wanted to add, when players warn they are going on holiday or vacation and will be out of touch for a week or two; and ignore the sun, sea, palm trees, whatever to find a fragging internet portal so they can get a post in, you have definitely beaten something too.

 

I agree 100%! Very, very true Sith.

 

Thanks, Sithy. Much appreciated and I am reading. I know that the number of players in GAW have fluctuated wildly. Regardless of the snail's pace and low number of participants at present, the scope and complexity of interweaving plots leads me to suggest that those criteria are good indicators of whether a game is considered "large" or "small" - at least from the GM's perspective. However, said taxonomy would depend also on the reason for the need to determine game "size." More players and rapid pace might indicate the interest generated by that game, or the "pull" a certain game has.

Best,
Pash

 

If any GMs are still reading this, I would be interested in a comparison of major expenses that you have had to outlay during the run of a game, eg. your desktop or laptop has died, and you have needed to get another, or get repairs done so that your players are not flailing about without you, or depending on your style of GM-ing, maybe the game stops dead while waiting for you to return.

 

For Tide of Flames it's going to come to about $900 all up, though that's made up of a physical copy of the module we're running and the special gift I have in mind for the players as we head towards the end. This is an insane number, I know, but it's been an insanely good experience over the five years. All other expenditures were, um, bargains because of the Internet.

 

Yes.

Bargains.

I think all total my bills come out to about $100 - had to get new RAM when I fried one of the two modules in my laptop in a water spill accident (My thesis was my primary concern at the time, though, so I was only out of commission for about a day while I transferred important files to a second laptop), and I bought a fourth edition Dungeon Master's Guide 2 for use while I was running Saga of the Nameless Lands. And I guess non-trivially occupied HDD space has some kind of opportunity cost associated with it, if I wanted to get technical.

 

I use my Internet for a lot of things so that doesn't count. Hm. I made SotS a nice hardcover book for thirty Euro. iCafes probably earned a hundred bucks total over the years from me. About half for checking the boards? Basically the good thing about Post-by-Post rping is, it is for free.

 

Wow.
Never really thought about it. If I did, Id probably cry. lol

I mean, over ten plus years, yes, Ive lost a few motherboards, chips, hard drives, etc. But my computer is for more than RPG'ing so, I just count that into the norm for things. Monthly internet access, upgrades of system, etc.

I've also run to the library, when my net access has died, and I could not access it at work.

My biggest cost is time.
And thats the hardest sometimes to come up with.

 

A question to all who care to share insight:

How do you choose your projects you Gm?

 

That's a good question, Fins. My first consideration for a project is, 'do I like it.' Second, 'Will other's like it'. Third, 'Are there enough resources and references to run this game'. I start with those three basic factors. The game subject must be interesting to the GM, since he or she will be spending a long time indulging the material. Players must also remain entertained throughout the gaming experience. Reference material serve to enhance the 'realistic feeling' and 'immersion' of the game. As we all know, a picture can convey a thousand words.

Some games might be 'hot' because it is based on the topic of the moment ( blockbuster game, movie, book, etc ) and is likely to gain immediate popularity. But once in a blue moon, you'll have a GM like Winged_ Jedi, who gave us Man Cub's ( I'm still awed at the genius of his game, even today ), and by sheer creativity and execution, can capture the interest of both new and veteran players alike.

It's generally known that obscure subjects don't do well ( generally speaking), especially if not well presented, so a GM must keep these things in mind whenever planning on launching a game. That's one of many reasons why I think the Interest Measurement Thread is an absolutely necessary tool for GMs who are planning to launch a game. It's a bitter sweet lesson when you've worked on a game for so long and you have a poor turn out. Better to see what sort of interest you can garner before launch. This is basic, but also fundamental when creating a game one is planning to launch here in the RPF.

Those are my two cents on that.

 

Interesting point on the Interest Measurement Thread. I was unaware that it was frequented enough by players to perform that role.

On the subject at hand, since all my GMing has been Assistant or Co' roles, I tend to be invited by the existing GM, though of the three games, none were for the same reason.

 

Interest Measurement seems to be frequently watched by people as far as I can tell.

Anyway, to the question.

I used to think of only one thing. Will people play it? Originally that was what everybody seemed to believe in was the only important question. It still is an important one, but I really think that we had games like Asylum, ManCubs or even the beloved Sins of the Saints which were actually all very, very leftfield.

Junglebook in SW? A game about people accidentially becoming God as a mystery thriller? Yeah, those are our most apprecaited game of today, probably. So that changed my view on things. Today I ask myself a different question and I mean really only ONE.

Do I believe it could be a good game?

Funny thing is, with this new question I have suddenly managed to make up games . . . which seemed so hard with the old question.

 

Indeed, a very good question there, Sirak. Which in turn makes me wonder in curiosity as to what questions, if any, did Fins and Wing_Jedi ask themselves during their creative process. The answer may prove enlightening.

I must state, that every GM at some point has to ask himself the question, 'Do I believe it could be a good game'. I believe the answer in their minds has to be 'yes', before they hit that 'launch' button. Why else continue?

So, yes...bring on those original adventures and awaken the sleeping giants!

 

These days I'm mostly worried about whether or not it would be fun to write an OP for the game, and whether or not I'd want to GM the game if it attracted players. It's kind of a selfish philosophy, and results in lots of flops, but I find it's the only method that consistently satisfies me - when I force things they just don't pan out.

 

Well, there are probably as many ways as GMs to decide, are there? Two groups of GMs seem to be especially dominant around here. Number One tests interest and number two just pulls out an OP without any warning. At least the first group seemed to me interested in filtering ideas through a general process of testing before pushing them out.

I think things like ManCubs, SotS, The Forever War or Lea Monde seem to be special in the regard that a lot work goes into the games before they even make it to the first OP draft. I guess at a certain point you cannot go back, can you? And as passion usually shows . . . it pays off.

 

Actually, IIRC, both Man Cubs and Lea Monde were conceived and written pretty much on the night they were posted.

 

I've always been impulsive. If I like the way something sounds, I'll write something up for it. If I like the way it looks, I'll usually go ahead and post it and see what happens. If I have an itch, I scratch it without feeling the need to ask for permission. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't (lately it hasn't at all), but that's just the way I do it. If I wait around to see if people are interested in it I run the risk of second guessing myself and then wind up not doing it at all. If a game gives me five minutes of enjoyment, then I did what I set out to do. Hell, just the excitement of waiting to see if anyone sends me a sheet is fun enough that I don't consider a failure a failure. If a game lasts two weeks and dies out, well, I just move on to the next thing. Fun two weeks? Yep. And that's good enough for me.

 

I think the best thing to do with writing is to just write.

I also think the best thing to do with writing is to plan and research.

Both work, it's just a matter of what idea lights the bulb.

 

Well, except a whole prototype game called Seven Prphans were all mechanics and the tone of a fairy-tale SW game were already present month before. I loved Seven Orphans, so don't you think I forgot about it.

Well, I haven't checked here for a long time, so I only saw this now.

I actually believe players make games and therefore Sirak's question is not so relevant for me. If it becomes a good game I cannot decide in some auteur like brilliance of mine. If will depend solely on the question of my players and how they will embrace my take and then develop it into their story.

So I want the "right" players. Meaning NOT AT ALL the cool kids or "great names" (I also believe newbies are the best players, because they bring a fanatism to a game everybody else has exorcised from his system). I want players who can work with my idea and understand what I am going at, so they can make it their own and "move" through this world without me having to explain it to them or railroad them. That's when a game becomes fun. In SotS, as praised as it always was, I lost several players early on who looked for something different. But I had a lot of people who obviously watched the same shows, loved the same fiction as I did and who were willing to develop this world as theirs in just the way I had hoped for. Lovely. Especially because when I asked my question . . .

Will I attract players who will make this game work?

. . . for SotS I was totally unsure if that answer could be a yes.

If the answer above is a yes, the question will your game be good is automatically a YES, too. Players make games, GMs just invent them. That is my believe, which might be entirely wrong, though. It works well as a thesis for me, though.

 

Intervention: Echoes in Eternity is looking to refresh our ranks! If anyone wants to play in a Original Trilogy game, just come visit us at the Rocketjock Eatery for any questions or information on how to join up! I will be out of town this upcoming weekend, but Echoes' Co-Game Master, Sith-I-5, can handle any character sheet submissions is my leave.

 

Hello everyone, it has been good to see an RPF revival. So many faces from long ago are returning, and activity is up. Maybe some older institutions can become sustainable once again?

I have been working on a game, for some time actually, the plot is hopefully something that is intriguing but what excites me the most is the way in which characters progress and how the acquisition of Force powers is dealt with, it is based solely on player activity and creativity. There is no GM who is determining when you level up, that is up to how you play, and what you do.

In this game the players set the pace of their growth, and determine who is the Dark Lord, of there are wars or alliances, conquests and betrayals. The GMs would be there to facilitate this in a somewhat orderly fashion, and to run quests and additional story arcs for Sith to react to.

I would love feedback. What am I doing right? What seems off? Is there anything missing? Questions? Did I explain things well? Etc?

Long live the RPF!

I present to you, my Lords and Ladies of the RPF a final rough draft of....

(Que the music)



Star Wars: The Dark Lords

Year: 3956 BBY​

Ajunta Pall, the first Dark Lord of the Sith, has just died. His rule had seen the subjugation of an entire species who were now fanatical zealots that worshiped he and his fellow Exiled Dark Jedi as gods, this worship has helped his fledgling empire spread to seventeen planets, with the capital now residing on Ziost. Korriban remains the religious center of the Empire, and is the most populous of the seventeen.

Though isolated from others deep in the outer rim the time could not be more volatile for the new Empire, political factions still remain within the former elite class of the Sith species. Not all were happy to see the arrival of a new world order, and they are a constant harassment to growth and stability. With the death of Ajunta Pall would they grow even bolder?

The question on everyone was asking however was if anyone could seize the mantle of Dark Lord and lead as Ajunta had, or would the Empire crumble now and splinter into warring factions. There were many Sith Lords within the Empire who were capable, but were they powerful enough to take advantage of this moment of opportunity?

Even now the most influential Lords and Ladies from across the seventeen planets were traveling to Korriban to attend the funeral of the Dark Lord, all in attendance would know the implications of his death would lead to an uncertain future for the Empire.

Working tirelessly on matters of state was the individual tasked with security and diplomacy within the Empire, one of the last original Exiled Dark Jedi still living, Shadow Hand Drathen Omana. He was almost as old as Ajunta, they had fought in the battle of Corbos together, few within the Empire today had as much military experience as did Omana, and at this time his vigilance was heightened against any possible violence that would disrupt the days to come.

A full blooded Sith, High Priest Dagon, tended to the matters of burial and succession. Though most of those descended from the Exiles were fearful of his power, Ajuna Pall relied upon his aid to unite most of the factions within the native species of Korriban. It was Dagon who fanned the flames of reverence, and who worked tirelessly to collect the ancient teachings of his Force sensitive species in order to be passed on to his Dark Lord, Ajunta Pall.

Even they, the two most powerful individuals in the Empire today, had only one question in their minds.

Who, if anyone, would become the next Dark Lord of the Sith?

Current Planets within Sith Control



The culture of the Sith Order would be as follows:

Rank and station is the most important thing in the world of the Sith. Ascension to greater power is the ultimate goal in the Sith society. Assassination is the preferred tool in this job. It must be used discreetly, for to openly murder or wage war on a rival will bring down the merciless might of Sith justice. Not because of the act itself, simply as a punishment for the boorish act of fighting in public.

Outside of the center of Sith civilization however, might is right, many unpleasant things can happen to an individual on Moraband (Still prefer Korriban!) or off world. Even here however, it is a good idea to keep those activities private, after all sometimes murder leads to revenge.

It is common for Sith to have allies, however one must be careful to not be double crossed, everyone is suspect.

Realistic Play

This is obviously sci-fi and fantasy, so we are talking about realism within the realm of Star Wars. No character can be immortal, nobody is omnipotent, Sith are not invincible. As players it is your responsibility to be as realistic as possible with your characters knowledge, ability, and actions. GMs will help guide the game, and help educate players as to basics and etiquette of role playing by text, we will always make an effort to help new players grow into the characters without slaughtering them immediately ) .

Character/s

I believe that characters of this period are more like feudal lords, each building a base of power around himself. As such each Sith should have their own house, or clan based NPCs (who won't have powers, but can still pose as formidable foes....and possibly be enhanced through ancient methods left unsaid at this time ).

This is up to you to create, but it is safe to consider that all Sith of the rank you will be playing will be of the elite class, with lands and wealth.

These are characters of influence, and power, they are the people who make the Empire run and who have enough power to lord over the rest. Even the newest character in this game is still a master, and will have the ability to create NPCs

Levels/Classes:

This game will have no levels, nor classes. Sith in this game are all considered Master level Sith at the point of character creation.....after all, these characters are the elite of the Sith Order and among the military and political classes already.

At the start of the game there will be only 1 title: Dark Lord of the Sith

Each character to hold this rank will determine the other ranks and positions within this order, these ranks offer no additional powers but are rewarded to add flavor to the game. These ranks can be High Priests of the religious caste, Spymasters who oversee the espionage and assassin caste, Battle Lords who lead Sith armies into war, etc.

All is created by the Dark Lord, whoever that is at the time, and when his/her reign is over the next Dark Lord is free to do the same.

Might makes right, the strong will lead the Order.

Powers

So we have no levels, but you might be asking yourself how will we determine powers for each character. Let me answer that.

All Sith in this game are considered Master level Sith and as such have been taught the basics, the basics are considered the commonly seen powers of Sith from the films.

Telekinesis: Includes choke, grab, push/pull, throw, etc.
Force Athleticism: Includes jump, speed, agility, stamina, etc.
Lightsaber: Will be based on writing skill and creativity. Players are free to tell us what form they use, but how it plays out in the game depends on how well you duel.
Basic Defense: Includes basic shields for personal defense, as well as how to channel rage and pain into martial power.

You might be asking yourself at this time...."Is that all we get?!" Don't fret, a vast number of powers are available. It is up to the player to tell us what they want. However they must be earned, and there are 4 ways to do that.

The 1st and most common way for a player to learn a power is to do a Power Quest. If Player X wants to play an assassin type of character, and would like to add the ability to add Force Stealth to his/her repertoire they can PM a GM.

The GM will set up a quest, the difficulty of the quest will depend on the power of the ability the character wants to earn. Force Storm for instance will be a FAR harder quest than Tutaminis.
The GM also has the right to determine that a power is broken in regards to this game, for instance we will not be allowing Mind Control.

Power Quests will not be easy, nor should they be.

The 2nd way to earn a power is through an Item Quest. Items can be gained in the game that will give players limited uses of powers, these quests will be easier than the Power Quests. If Player X wants to gain an item that gives the ability to use Force Stealth, a quest can be set up by the GM to gain an item that will allow the player to use that power 1-3 times (depending on the difficulty of the quest).

The 3rd way is to learn a power from another character. If Player Y wants to learn Force Stealth from Player X (player X must have learned the power through a Power Quest before s/he can teach another player), s/he can approach that character and barter for the knowledge. Player X may require a favor, may demand loyalty, may only train an apprentice, or any other thing they deem necessary to come to an agreement. If a power is earned in this way GMs will require that multiple posts be made in game to show this transfer of knowledge.

The 4th and final way to earn a power is to combat another character. If Player Y wants to earn Force Stealth from Player X as a power and does not want to trade for knowledge s/he can fight for it. If Player Y wins s/he can take one power from the loser and add it to his/her own list, however if Player X wins they can steal a power from the challenger. The loser is no longer able to use the lost power, but is free to earn it again through another Power Quest.

This does not need to be a death fight.

The Kaggath: Character vs Character Combat and Death:

Characters will die from time to time. This is not personal. Making it personal won't be tolerated. This is character play. If a player vs player fight takes place and it is going to be to the death it will be judged as per proper role playing etiquette by neutral GMs.

Not all Character vs Character fights need to be death fights, though they can be only if both parties agree.

Most non-death fights will be to earn powers, this is how Sith become more or less powerful within the game.

Players can also agree to death fights, or a Kaggath (an ancient battle of domination between two Sith Lords) if the need arises. The only time a death fight is required is when a character challenges a Dark Lord, and the Dark Lord cannot turn down a legitimate challenge (as determined by GMs, characters with no or weak in-game alliances or few powers won't be allowed) .

Upon a character death the main character is considered dead, for good. We won't get into essence transfer, maybe ghosts.....maybe. Anyway, their power base is considered destroyed. The player can create a new character, with GM approval (with 1/2 the powers of the previous character).

At the end of the day we are trying to tell stories, epic ones, and play out the birth of the Sith Empire. For that to happen we all need to be mature and have fun with this, or it won't work.

 

I remember discussing this before and I did recall mentioning Drow Societies, R.A. Salvatore, a hint of Game of Thrones, and a plethora of other things. I really like this idea, it's an innovative approach to a known playground. The Era you've chosen is also very compelling. I'm willing to try it out. Let me read this a few more times to fully get the leveling mechanics, but generally, I'm definitely feeling this game.

EDIT:

That map you posted is rather small though. Can't see a thing. I couldn't find a larger or similar version.