PT The "What-If?" Depository - ALL conceptual/hypothetical conversation goes here

How much did Mas Amedda know?


Just how much did the Vice Chair know about Supreme Chancellor Palpatine's true nature. He seems to aid Darth Sidious's cause in TPM, when he obstructs Valorum and keeps him from taking action against the Trade Federation.

He helps Palpatine more directly in AOTC, where he insists that the Senate give Palpatine emergency powers and approve the creation of an army, which sets off the Clone Wars.

In ROTS, Amedda witnesses Yoda enter Palpatine's office and call him Darth Sidious. He then sees Palpatine blast Yoda across the office with Force Lightning. After the duel concludes, Amedda declares that Yoda is not dead if the clones couldn't find a body. He addresses Palpatine as Master in that scene.

Not Emperor, or Your Majesty, as the clones do. But Master, the way Palpatine's apprentices address him.

So did Mas Amedda know that Palpatine was a Sith from the beginning? Or did it take Yoda's "Should I call you Darth Sidious" and the Force Lightning for Mas Amedda to realize that Palpatine was far more than a mere politician who had risen beyond his office.

 

No, Amedda definitely knew Palpatine was a Sith Lord. He probably knew at least from the time of Palpatine's election. Maybe earlier.

 

The movies don't say when Mas Amedda first learned he was a Sith Lord.

Recent EU suggests he learned shortly after the loss of Outbound Flight (about 5 years into Palpatine's term):

http://starwarsblog.starwars.com/in...olerable-alien-henchmen-of-the-empire-part-3/

Shortly after the annihilation of the Outbound Flight project, a Jedi mission of peace for which Amedda had passionately lobbied, Palpatine not only revealed to Amedda that he’d ordered the mission’s destruction, but that he was, in fact, a Dark Lord of the Sith, sworn enemy of the Jedi and the Republic. Palpatine explained that he’d known all along Amedda and others had tried to manipulate him, and that in truth, he had manipulated them, pitting them against each other like pawns to do his bidding. The Chagrian was crushed. Amedda thought he could use his position to deceive Palpatine and secretly lead the Republic out of darkness and into a glorious new order. Instead, he was responsible for the exile of Palpatine’s enemies and the deaths of countless innocents.

But Palpatine appealed to the Chagrian’s most basic nature. Contrary to killing Amedda, the Dark Lord explained that they were both mere cogs in a transcendent “Grand Plan.” The Jedi, the Republic and even the revenge of the Sith were all mere components in the greatest experiment ever attempted, an experiment stretching back beyond the time of Xim the Despot and the ancient Infinite Empire. Palpatine, too, shared Amedda’s vision of a New Order — but this New Order was not the same as the Republic or even Palpatine’s future Galactic Empire, for these were only practical manifestations of Amedda and Palpatine’s shared dream within the limitations of time and space. This truth was what the earliest Sith people had understood, so long ago.

And then, Amedda understood, too: Absolutes were an illusion. For 25,000 years, democracy had had its chance. Beyond the Republic and beyond the Sith, beyond the contrary yeas and nays of the Senate, which were only the two opposing ends of this illusion, was the inexorable dream of perfect procedure — and of peace. That was eternal. And it had fallen to him and Palpatine to bring it into reality. Amedda accepted his destiny and pledged his undying loyalty to the Supreme Chancellor. And among Amedda’s first duties was planning the assassination of his friend, former Chancellor Valorum.

Thus, despite the noble ideals he’d once held so dear, Amedda subsumed himself to the Grand Plan, hunting Sith relics for his master on worlds such as Yavin 4, and standing by Palpatine’s side when he declared himself ruler of a Galactic Empire that would endure 10,000 years. But as Imperial policies became increasingly human-centric and hostile toward alien species, Amedda slowly withdrew from public politics.From a secret Imperial Citadel on the planet Byss, in the very heart of the galaxy, Amedda diligently outlined preparations necessary for his New Order for the next thousand years, the next 10,000 years… and beyond.

Of course, it's entirely up to the viewer if they accept this or not - it's not the definitive answer - just an answer.

 

Films provide no answer and we already have a place for random questions.

 

I'm not sure about that.

There's no question that Obi-Wan would die fighting Palpatine. Yoda barely escaped with his life and Mace, Agen, Kit and Saesee were all killed.

But I think that Yoda would be unable to kill Darth Vader. Oh, he'd probably win the fight, but Anakin wouldn't go down easy. Let us not forget that Dooku gave Yoda a good fight, and Anakin crushed Dooku easily.

 

I'd like to add a few extra comments though in this thread, especially since the OP asked for great detail (for those who haven't seen my first post which goes into a sizable explanation on the fight, turn to page 5 of this thread. My post is the one with all the pictures and youtube videos):

How I envision Anakin vs Yoda:

No doubt, Yoda vs Anakin would have been a very fierce battle with the two whirling and slashing at each other, drawing upon incredible amounts of the Force. The first half of the fight would seem to be even, neither giving ground, each weaving a web of slashes and jabs. But the scale would eventually tip in one direction. Yoda would begin to realize just how powerful the boy had become, how much his strength had grown in part to his continued fighting in the Clone Wars. Anakin would ultimately emerge the victor; his slashes would come down stronger, quicker, even faster than Yoda could parry. Anakin would basically be a fountain of power; he would keep becoming stronger and stronger throughout the fight, further tapping into his potential, while Yoda would slowly wear down, until he would be forced to give ground as Anakin relentlessly pushed Yoda back, forcing Yoda's own blade to maintain a constant defense. But Anakin's blows, as he grew stronger by tapping into his potential and holding the Dark Side in an iron-clad grip, channeling his powers into a focus that brought his full strength to use, would hammer at Yoda's defenses with strikes that Yoda would be forced to draw upon his own Force reserves to block, exhausting him, weakening him. It would reach a point where Anakin would simply bring down his blade with such force that Yoda's own blade would tumble from his fingers.

No Obi-Wan, no mental conflict, no external factor to make up the difference, Anakin would focus his power into slaughtering the Jedi Master that was revered to be the greatest Jedi in the Order. He would be focused by his determination, pure thrill, and exaltation of his power. He would be the exact same Anakin who defeated Count Dooku aboard the Invisible Hand: relentless, focused, determined, and constantly growing in strength.

Yoda, beaten and tired, disarmed and depleted of his Force reserves, would lay on the ground as the Chosen One drew a sigh of deep satisfaction, of euphoria, as he reveled in his unrivaled power and his victory over the greatest of the Jedi. I can see Anakin ending it by gripping the old Jedi Master's body with the Force, with such power that even Yoda during the beginning of their confrontation would have had difficulty in repulsing, and bringing it to him as he impaled the Jedi Master on his own(Anakin's) blade. He might even then contemptuously Force-throw Yoda into the lava, a smile of pure contempt coming to his lips as he again, with a slight tilt of his chin, took pleasure in his power and his victory.

Now this is where it gets interesting: I believe Anakin, at this point, would form a resolve to ask Sidious for all his knowledge and then kill him. But I think Darth Sidious fully anticipated Anakin eventually coming after his life, so I can only wonder what he would have done when Anakin no longer saw use for having a "master." But that's a whole different discussion...

 

Well written. I can totally see that happening. Yoda would go the same way his student did.

An Anakin embracing the unadulterated power that let him kill Dooku would be able to overwhelm Yoda in the end.

 

No, but my advice would be to just buy the prequel box and give it to your brother.

 

My immediate thought it Peter Griffin's voice coming from Palpatine.

"No friggin' way! Ahahahahahahahaha..... You can't be serious! Hahahahahahaha... haha.... OK, OK I'm good. Let's fight."

I don't think Yoda would have been able to talk Vader down. He was too far gone by that point. And he is vastly overconfident in his abilities, telling Padme that he could overthrow Palpatine. I think Vader would have tried to fight Yoda. He would have lost, and perhaps Yoda would have been able to disarm him and capture him without inflicting serious injury.

I've never really questioned what would happen had Obi-Wan and Yoda changed places, since it seems foolhardy. But I have questioned why Obi-Wan and Yoda didn't confront Palpatine TOGETHER. He was clearly the bigger threat. Vader did not have command of the Galaxy, he didn't have thousands of supporters and the entire military at his command. Had they both gone after Palpatine and won and left Vader for another day, he wasn't really THAT big of a threat on his own.

I felt like Palpatine was the obvious target and that it was pointless to split up and send Obi-Wan after Vader, since even if Obi-Wan did win (and he did) they still ended losing because Yoda failed. Had Yoda killed Palpatine but Obi-Wan been killed by Vader, I don't feel like anyone would have needed to go into exile (except maybe Vader).

 

Agreed.

Unless of course, there exists a great distance between the two of you and you don't have a credit card.... either way, I'm still no fan of third-party transactions when purchasing online. If I had to, I'd research PayPal, WebCheque and the like, then pick the one which best suits your needs. There are plenty of sites that will allow you to purchase the PT BoxSet/Bluray with your Visa/MC/Disc and ship it free of charge. Here are a few that popped up with a quick search.

http://www.overstock.com/Books-Movi...gy-6-Disc-Box-Set-WS-DVD/3380403/product.html

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Star-Wars...venge-Of-The-Sith-Blu-ray-Widescreen/15711108

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...=dvd&hvadid=3483619593&ref=pd_sl_72l1zpm6l9_b

/Lock/Merge.

 

Hmmm so could Amedda play a role in the ST perhaps?

 

I see Yoda defeating Vader, he was just too overconfident and hadn't been able to tap into any of his so called new powers up until that point. The implied reason I think it doesn't happen is that the Force knows he will eventually take down Palpatine and somewhere in his subconscious Yoda knows this.

Obi-Want verses Sidious....run Obi-Wan!

 

Good post. I also have thought it would have been wiser to double-team one and then the other.

 

I'm not so sure about Anakin's death. One of the reasons Obi-Wan was able to defeat him, was due to his lack of control over his emotional state. If Anakin had faced Yoda, I cannot help wonder if he would have been so emotional. If not, Yoda could have been in a lot of trouble.

 

Couldn't Yoda just push him into an emotional breakdown? Like say he has been foolin' around with Padme behind Anakin's back?

 

Yoda fooling around with Padme?

 

Yoda would have elicited a different type of reaction from Anakin, but one almost as violent as it is with Obi-wan. But in the outcome, it would be Yoda who would win and he would not hesitate to kill Anakin.

 

Anakin dies so does Kenobi which leads to yoda vs sidious

 

Well it might help put Anakin on an off-balance state of mind

Isn't that what he suspected of Obi-Wan and Padme?

 

What kind of reaction?

 

Size matters not indeed.

 

He does have like 800+ years of experience on Anakin...

 

I wouldn't agree that Anakin defeated Dooku easily. I think Yoda would have defeated Dooku just as well as Anakin had, but Yoda's duel had to stop because Dooku was about to kill Obi-Wan and Anakin who were lying injured on the ground. If the lightsaber duel carried on, Yoda would have won. That is probably why Dooku decided to stop the duel altogether.
As for Obi-Wan, I'd agree that Palpatine would have defeated him. Yoda said he was too strong for him.

 

Padme: "...Yoda... There is still good in him... I know there's...."
Yoda: "Shhhh.... Dead, he is."

 

Would Vader view him as a threat to his relationship with Padme, if he stowed away on her ship like Obi Wan? I don't think so.... and because of that, I believe Vader would be in a much better state of mind to fight the Grandmaster.