ST Who's The Baddie?

What I meant is that a clone of a new hero or villain would be no better than a clone of Palpatine or Yoda or Obi-Wan in my book.

 

No, I get it, I'm just saying that there are other ways of potentially using cloning tech which may not be so horrible.

Yeah, but this guy is likely the one seen as the "face of the franchise":



Not this guy:



And a clone of Vader wouldn't require any life support/breathing apparatus.

I don't know, it just sounds like a bad idea to me.

 

Yeah. I was reading some interviews where Luceno says they very nearly canned the entire book because Lucasfilm higher ups didn't like the direction he was going with Darth Sidious. The first problem being that there just wasn't enough of him in the earlier drafts of the book, but the second being that they felt he wasn't representing Sidious the way they, Lucas, and even Ian McDiarmid viewed him. That being evil incarnate. Luceno basically says he felt like he might have been overreaching in exposing too much of the mystery of Sidious. So it took some time to course correct.

 

Luceno said he made Palpatine an aristocrat based on his way of speaking. I wonder whether or not that's what GL intended.

 

^The baddie should be those that insist on making nested quote pyramids with brief, one-line responses. Just kidding. But that really is a pet peeve of mine, it really makes scrolling on smaller screens a bit of a chore. Thankfully when this board upgrades long, nested quotes will be a thing of the past (as long as the admins allow that functionality).

Anyway, back to topic (and no nested quotes here):

Absolutely. The thing is, Plagueis tried to apply science and knowledge of the physical world to trying to understand and deconstruct the Force, a metaphysical entity. As Luke once said, regarding Plagueis' writings in Book of Sith:

Plagueis' lack of faith in the fact that the Force works in mysterious ways certainly played a role in his undoing, I would think. As Luke said, "The Force is a welcoming place, far larger than Plagueis' attempts to measure and minimize it."

While the most powerful Sith, like Sidious, managed to manipulate and control the Force like they would a beast of burden, the inherent corruption of the dark side ensured that even these most powerful of dark siders would eventually meet their undoing, at the behest of the Force. The Chosen One prophecy being one mere example that the Force would "have the final word on the matter of 'who will have their way with whom' ", as you've noted, Trebor.

 

Plagueis never understood that there is more to the force than midichlorians. You can't measure god. In SW at least it will only speak to you when you believe.

I also think this is a direction they could take the clones. The clones are simply not force-sensitive, because the force is hereditary but isn't genetic. End of story.

It picks up speed somewhere around the middle but yes, this is not an adventure novel. It's about some plotting villains acting like plotting villains.

 

It kind of reminds me of Dune, if it were written without any kind of conflict. And I think that's really my biggest gripe: where's the conflict? No conflict = no story. All that remains is exposition.

 

Since when has filmmaking been solely about the use of good ideas?

It's not something I'd personally like to see... but it's inevitable (IMO) that Vader will be back in some shape or form (and when I state 'Vader' I mean the suit)...

 

I imagine that's where things like spinoffs and the rumoured Vader TV specials will come in.

 

If "Sith" can become an "idea", so could Vader. In fact, I'd bet the average galactic citizen would be more likely to recognize Vader than to recognize the Sith code.

 

Yeah I remember when that rumor surfaced right away when the movie was announced. Noble would be a good villain for sure, just doubt he'll be in it.

 

I found it all entertaining. There are plenty of space adventure stories. I was glad to read a more philosophic one, it really digs deep into the meaning of the Sith. Also it got bonus point for mentioning my favorite character in all of Star Wars lore.

Oh and if Disney brings back Vader I will walk out of the theater. I don't care if he appears in the spinoffs (as a supporting character), but his story is done. Just bring back Anakin's ghost. But I've been through this before, I will get off my soap box.

And anyways, the movies are based on George's treatments, so I doubt Vader will be back unless its Anakin's ghost.

 

Which would be a shame...

 

I partially agree with you, as I too found the novel dragging at times (far too often solutions fall straight into Plagueis' lap), but I think it isn't really about any conflict but rather a psychological analysis of these two monstrous Sith Lords. I guess you need to be a Sith fan and/or continuity nut to enjoy this book.

 

I only know him from ROTK, but his performance as Denethor was fantastic. I always think "This slimeball is running the greatest nation of men in the 3rd Age?"

That would be me lol

 

Spot on!

And incidentally, this take on matters of the Force is pretty much in line with what I hope to see from Master Luke in the ST (all the more so, I suppose, if Plagueis himself is actually in play). Both quotes, I feel, demonstrate quite well what I envision as Luke's deep reverence for, and keen understanding of the Force, some three decades following the events at Endor.

Well done, CL.

 

Ok that tears it. Where's the best place to purchase the Plagueis novel?

More on topic: I totally agree with the above posts. Luke's explanation and view of the Force is very refreshing. I hope to hear some grand Yoda-esque speech from Luke to one of his new (to become a new hero) students about the Force like this, and how the enemies don't understand the most crucial element of the Force. That it's will simply cannot be bent like that.

 

This emphasis on midichlorians and controlling them is why I don't have a problem with the creation of force-sensitive beings -- whether it be clones or something created directly by a Sith. It would be a perfect opportunity to show the difference between faith in the Force and faith in video game-sized midichlorian counts. For example, if you cloned a bunch of Sith warriors, maybe they still lack that indefinable quality that the Jedi have (faith). Maybe you bring some monstrous-sized Sith in, and supposedly their midichlorian count is off the charts, but the Jedi still kick its ass. You could explain that via madness or something else if you wanted, but I'd rather it be more about showing that the Jedi, no matter how powerful a particular one is, have a special relationship to the Force.

Also, if midichlorians are in all living things, why wouldn't they be in clones?

I'm not so worried about the potential plot problems cloning force sensitives might create. You can either explain some of these issues away, or ignore them. It's not like these movies, or movies in general, always explain plot problems. For instance, you could say that Palpatine thought it unwise to clone a full strength Anakin. Maybe he liked having a wounded Vader under his control. Cloning a full-strength Vader would just be asking for trouble.

Cloning fascinates me in general because of how it problematizes identity. Maybe this subject isn't right for the ST, but I'd love to see more of it in the solo films or TV.

 

Santa's workshop

 

Cloning would be more interesting if it were used to explore identity. But usually it's just a cheap gimmick to create an antagonist.

 

Aha so Santa will be the villain in the ST!

"Ho ho ho you've been a naughty Jedi this year, so Santa is going to destroy you!"

"Ho ho ho more power for Santa ho ho ho!"

 

Did you happen to catch this year's American Dad Christmas episode?

 

Close the doors and hide, children, or Santa will get you. Happy X-mas!