Lit A/V The Force Awakens and the EU [TAGGED spoilers.]

Yeah, that was a joke.

 

I'm aware of that, which why movies like Batman and Robin still sold large numbers of tickets.

I like Star Wars because of a variety of reasons. If the new movie contains none of the reasons but retains the name, should I waste my time anyways? I would hope the answer is "no", but Disney would probably prefer "yes".

Considering I sat through the PT and much of the CWAS, I'd consider I gave it "a shot".

See the prior post for my thoughts on this strawman argument.

I would think that finding things that truly make you happy rather than settling for mediocrity might be better, but that may be just me.

 

Be fair now, mediocre is a type of happiness. Mild but it's there. Absolutely 100% over the top happy love fun time is very rare in anything in life, especially in movies. All we can hope for is a series of moments, even in a a mediocre movie. but that does imply the aforementioned mediocrity still had a moment. Or two or three.

 

I think it's telling how deep a hole the license-holders have dug themselves into that so many people are apathetic about this. When I was a teenager I would have picketed outside the theater if the ST was rebooting the EU (lol not rly), but after almost a decade of repeated heartbreak it's hard to care that much anymore. I'd rather take a chance on something new than have to keep settling for something broken.

 

I can't settle for something broken either, which is why I have such a massive problem with the post-NJO, TFU, and TCW, but I don't want something new, because Star Wars to me is the likes of Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui-Gon Jinn, Yoda, Mace Windu, Luke Skywalker, Leia Organa Solo, Han Solo, Lando Calrissian, Talon Karrde, Wedge Antilles, Gial Ackbar, Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, Anakin Solo, Mara Jade, Kyle Katarn, Corran Horn, Mirax Terrik, Booster Terrik, Jango Fett, Boba Fett, Soontir Fel, Maarek Stele, Thrawn, and Palpatine, so if the ST isn't apart of all of their stories, excluding what I mentioned, I don't want it.

 

Pretty much.

Or you can just make a list of all the stuff you like and a separate list of all the stuff you dislike, and demand that Lucasfilm ignore the stuff you dislike while making the sequel trilogy utterly beholden to the stuff that you like and then complain daily on this forum when that doesn't happen because it's wholly unrealistic.

 

If you consider that a 'bonus' to seeing a movie, you and I have very different expectations at the theater.

That's really throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.

Yes, DN to FOTJ are questionable to most fans, and even as someone who didn't mind LOTF and liked FOTJ, I concede they were far from the best way to take things post-NJO and not something that would be reasonable to include in the ST.

But most other novels etc. are at a minimum decently well received by the fan base. Yes, we nitpick this, that and the other thing, and some people dislike certain authors, but there's little else (other than say Crystal Star) that's universally reviled that way.

If the ST rebooted post NJO that only knocks out the 21 major novels from that period, that's still keeping 86% of the adult novels (129/150) not to speak of comics etc. (which brings it to well over 90% of the EU). We could all live with that I think, especially if it meant seeing Mara, Jacen, Jaina and Pellaeon on screen (or whoever).

Just because some parts of the EU haven't lived up to expectations or been very good, doesn't mean that all of it should be thrown out the window unnecessarily. Even if its never specifically referenced, not contradicting it would be a good nod of appreciation to the fans of the franchise who have poured billions into it over the past 30 years, not to speak of a practical way to fill the (presumably) 30-some year gap between trilogies.

Personally I don't think the problems with LOTF/FOTJ are enough to warrant abandoning Thrawn, Karrade, Corran and the others.

 

I find it interesting that people that are heavily invested in the EU are film snobs. Because a movie ticket is cheaper than one FOTJ novel.

 

For now.

 

Even if it wasn't, my point is that there's not like the EU has this "high ground" of superior quality. It's all pretty bad in general.

 

you left the other part of the sentiment which is "If it's just an okay movie in the franchise, hey, at least you got to see stuff in that world happen again and be mildly enjoyable at the same time." The word "mildly enjoyable" means that you enjoyed some stuff in there. Even if it's mediocre you still get to see some bits of that franchise you like. Mediocre is not bad, it's not awesome, it's mediocre. Which is middle of the road. Not every single movie is going to be a fantastic, transcendent experience that clicks on every level. I do not expect every movie I see to be awesome. I go in with a baseline at 5 outta 10. It should, hopefully, either end up being okay to good to awesome. Bad is just bad. Awful is just awful. Mediocre, at least, manages to have something or other in there, and there's a moment or two of that aforementioned franchise that you like peeking out once in awhile. Which is fine. Not awesome, not amazing, just fine. If a movie is fine, that's not a bad thing. It's just okay.

 

They've kinda written themselves into a corner with FotJ. So much has been killed off or marginalized at this point that any continuation of the post-RotJ EU would feel like a reboot anyway!

DigitalMessiah mentioned that a movie ticket is less than a book, but we shouldn't forget that a book (sans Invincible) can take longer to read than a movie takes to watch. Not that FotJ needed to be any longer... *shudders*

 

I'm 95% certain we will see these characters still kicking around in the EU. Not the movies, and not with the exact same history or characterization that they had before the ST came out but Damn Skippy some of the more popular characters will be repurposed or reused in whatever comes our way outta tie-in publishing post ST.

 

I don't know what prices are where you live DM, but i may want to borrow your couch sometime.

For me, a paperback costs $8-10 depending if I buy it online or in-store. A movie ticket averages around 15-18 for regular and 20-25 for 3D depending on day and show.


Also, a book you can read multiple times, a movie ticket gets you into the theater for maybe 2 hours. Now yes, I grant that certain books from the EU don't measure up (in some cases anywhere close) to the standards I expect from a film. But compare the budgets for each. If you've got several tens of millions of dollars, A-list stars, and a plethora or writers, I would hope you can manage something that's going to blow me away, not merely mildly entertain me. An EU writer under time constraints, and working on other projects I'm willing to accept "pretty darn good" rather than "excellent", if it focuses on characters and situations I'm already interested in.

Would I go see the Bane Trilogy (for example) on the screen? Not a chance. Its a fun book that I enjoy reading, but its not something that I'll be enraptured by in film. Thrawn Trilogy? Absolutely

I did truncate. But for me, I'm not going to spend money in a theater on a 5/10. I'm expecting at least an 8 or 9/10 if I'm spending money there.

Using the same name with a different characterization is not the same character though.

To use a deliberately extreme example: Bruce Wayne as a limping homless guy dressed in a black onsie with a mask, is not Bruce Wayne, even if he is fighting crime and calling himself Batman. History and characterization are precisely what makes a character (or person in real life) who they are.

 

Not if they get Peter Jackson to direct it.

 

My point wasn't really the cost at all, but it's true.

But it seems like people are expecting the sequel trilogy to not be as good as the original trilogy because the prequel trilogy was bad and now that's where the bar is. Well, guess what, X-wing and Thrawn trilogy and NJO were all published over a decade ago, and if anything, the EU has been worse than the prequels.

And seriously, continuity? That's another marketing gimmick to get you to buy the same crap that everyone is deriding seeing Episode VII because of the "brand name." Continuity is the same as a brand name. It doesn't ensure the material is good. And because of certain stories, it's all but restricted other (future) stories from being good.

I specifically named Fate of the Jedi because Del Rey published it in entirely in hardcover, which is more expensive than a film ticket. Now, if you're going to claim you can wait for a paperback, then that's the same as waiting for it on DVD or blu-ray, which defeats the argument of the film being more expensive.

And the reason why Del Rey published the series entirely in hardback is because the sales suck because the books suck.

 

Well it won't be, but that's not the reason.

 

The OT wouldn't be as good as the OT if it was released now.

 

As good or as popular?

 

If the OT came now everyone would just complain about it the way they do PT, LOTR, Hobbit and everything else that has came out in the internet days.

 

Popular.

The ST is doubly screwed in this regard, because it has to live up to the OT. I guess the prequel trilogy was as well, but I won't comment on whether or not it deserved it...

 

Post NJO for the most part with few exceptions I'll concede that point. But again, baby with the bathwater. Cut those two series, and you're actually dealing with some generally good material.

I would note though that none of my comments or any I've read have actually said that the ST will be bad or not as good as the OT, simply expressing a lack of interest in a reboot or abandonment of the existing universe that we care about for one that we do not.

Right. Hardbacks. Forgot that for a minute. I never buy hardbacks so I tend to ignore the pricepoint on those, but your point makes more sense now.

 

Don't the majority of Star wars books release in hardcover first?

 

Not gonna lie. I'm going to hold the ST to a higher standard than the PT. With the talent Disney has on board, and the simple concept of correcting for past mistakes, I don't consider my expectations egregiously unreasonable.