Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

I kind of like the idea of Megador being a Bellator, since to my recollection we mostly see her hanging back out of the fight and her appearance on the battlefield doesn't seem to constitute the sort of "oh crap" moment that a "hulking weapons platform" like the Mandator III would represent. With that said, barring a modification to the Bellator's engine array a Mandator variant is the most likely possibility - either a Mandator II or III.

Fun thought, though - on page 200 of EGTW we see behind the Millennium Falcon a fleet of ISD-IIs marked with New Republic Starbirds, with a Bellator and a Procursator in the background. They look to be on the same heading as the ISDs, although no NR markings are visible on them. Depending on when one wants to date that image (the caption describes the Falcon's crew as "New Republic heroes;" the start of the section is an overview of the NRDF's organization from post-Endor inception to the eve of the Vong invasion), the NR either had its hands on a Bellator or managed to take one down relatively intact. If the former and if this image was from the first year or two of the New Republic, it may have been one of the captured Imperial ships destroyed at the Hast Shipyard. Alternately, if late in the NR's term, it might be Megador herself, captured after taking damage at Anx Minor. The two extra engines might be an addition made by the New Republic yards.

 

None of them look very old in that pic:



In fact, Leia's outfit and hairstyle look like those of ESB.

Maybe it's an ESB shot, re-rendered as a painting, with Luke added, plus various ships?

I could see it being fairly early, chronologically.

 

Wookieepedia cites Jedi Academy Sourcebook:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sovereign-class_dreadnought
Only three additional ships were known to have been named at the time of the project's cancellation: Autarch, Despot, and Heresiarch.[3] It was believed that all four named ships under construction had been lost around Palpatine's final death.[8]

 

This mystery Bellator could solve a few problems if it was the "single captured Super Star Destroyer" scrapped by order of Mon Mothma. Lusankya could have scraped by by claim of it being salvaged and rebuilt into a "medical research ship"

 

That said, Lusankya was used as a warship in the Crimson Empire crisis, before the events of the Jedi Academy trilogy.

 

"The new Eclipse and Sovereign-class Star Destroyers were to have been the premier capital ships for some time to come (alas, they were destroyed)" - p. 130 JAT Sourcebook.

 

I'd be interested in learning when the Assertor-class was designed, when it entered service, how many were built, and what happened to those.

We know of the Wrath- and we can speculate that the first production model was probably called Assertor.

 

True, but Lusankya is sort of a mess with regards to the BFC quote anyways. Listing it on the books as a "Medical Ship" regardless of it's actual use could have helped sneak it by, and having the Bellator be the ship scrapped by Mothma's order would account for why we never see it anywhere else.

 

Question is- why scrap it in the first place? Did she think SSDs were inappropriate for the New Republic to use?

 

The Imperial Civil War is heavily implied to have chewed up most of the remaining big ships; EGTW indicates that most or all of them were summoned to Byss. Besides a few Executors, we don't see any of the others around after the Dark Empire series. I assume that, by then, all the shipyards capable of building super-ships were either destroyed or in the hands of the NR. Maybe the NR made a special point to target and destroy (or maybe even capture) any of these ships in the brief campaign to take back the Core, taking advantage of the chaos of the fall of the Dark Empire - or possibly the last few were obliterated in the poor military decisions in the final days of the "Crimson Empire".

I would give an educated guess that since the ships are the same length, the Byss yards where the Sovereigns were being built were responsible for the Assertors.

 

If the Byss yards were consumed by the destruction of Byss in Empire's End (with each "slipway" holding an incomplete Sovereign-class) it would push the construction of the Assertors back to pre-Empire's End.

Maybe the Assertors were precursors to the Sovereigns, rather than successors as I think fractalsponge conceived them as?

The idea of the Byss yards surviving seems a bit implausible.

 

The destruction of Byss is a rather convenient way to write out monsters like the Assertor and Sovereign classes. We know the Empire relocated much of its shipbuilding to Byss, and when the Galaxy Gun had its little misfire it took those yards and a lot of dreadnoughts with it. Which is amusing if you think about it - the Rebellion/New Republic won what was perhaps its most crushing victory over the Empire by the (accidental) use of the sort of superweapon they would refuse to utilize later on.

As far as the "ordered scrapped by Mon Mothma" blurb, I've always thought that referred to the beating Lusankya took at the hands of the Reaper and Dominion over Orinda around 12.5-13 ABY. EGTW states that if Rogue Squadron hadn't punched her an exit Antilles would have given the abandon ship order. A Star Dreadnought that's taken that kind of a pummeling is going to be a long and expensive repair project; she might have sat in disrepair for years until the Black Fleet Crisis and the final Imperial campaigns of 17-18 ABY brought her out of retirement. Granted, that still leaves the question of why Mon Mothma would give the order, but as we've seen in several novels she was sort of a standing "backup Chief of State" during this period. If it happened during the events of Planet of Twilight or if Leia was somehow indisposed at another time, Mon Mothma may have been serving in a caretaker role and given the order to scrap Lusankya, which was then countermanded or delayed for years. Either way, we can assume Lusankya was out of service during the events of the Black Fleet Crisis as she was not called in; the ship could have been in deep overhaul, extended reserve, or have been tied up in paperwork and contract disputes before scrapping was to start.

 

Might be interesting to see the evolution of the tactical superlaser/proton beam cannon detailed: from hulking weapons that the ship needs to be built around (first seen in Last of the Jedi), to compact installations that can be fitted to existing ISD Star Destroyers like Piett's Accuser.

My guess is that the Eclipse and Sovereign are more an example of "miniaturization of the strategic super laser" - downscaling a Death Star component beam projector to the point that it can be installed in a dreadnought hull, without sacrificing too much power (Starships of the Galaxy Saga Edition classes it as 2/3 the power of Death Star component beam projector)

Maybe the Assertor's superlaser falls midway between "Accuser-level" and "Sovereign-level".

 

Could Validusia have built the Assertors?

Some of the big ships seem to have wandered off to the EotH, if the EGtW is any indication.

 

I'm curious- which TEGtW scene hints at that?

It might be interesting to know more about Validusia than wee see here:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Naval_Station_Validusia

I thought it was basically a super-sized "service station" rather than a construction yard.

 

The EGtW mentioned in the same breath that Executors were buried (obviously referring to the Lusankya) and sent out to the Unknown Regions. It's a fair bet that if one is true, the other probably is as well.

 

Sorry about that - yes, that was what I was trying to say, that the slips that built the Assertors were retooled for making the Sovereigns.

 

It also mentions that some of those ships may well have been spreadsheet phantoms put on the budget to hide other projects from notice. Again, this is one of those "as many as the plot gods require" things.

 

Well, at least leaving things up to plot gods prevents those Bantam trainwrecks from rearing their heads too much.

 

I like it- but it would contradict fractalsponge's original idea a bit:

Guesswork and random background notes:
Effectiveness wise, I think a Mandator might be very heavily built and much more survivable ton-for-ton than an Executor, which is more of a glass cannon, but quite fast. Assertor would have decisive superiority over either, but due to different factors (brute armament, and possibly speed over a Mandator, survivability and to a lesser extent armament over an Executor). Armament is within 5-fold of a Mandator, which should be quite decisive, but per ton might be more comparable. An Executor is going to be well enough armed to be in the same range (~2-fold), but might get hammered to pieces before it can matter.

Assertors would have superior ancillary equipment (late-generation and more numerous EW/comscan equipment, gravity well generators) compared to either older design. The miniaturized superlaser also makes it a better siege platform, as well as offering the chance for a very concentrated alpha in ship to ship, if it hits. Otherwise, the capacitor system would basically serve as an additional surge sink for the power system, enhancing survivability, or as backup for other gun batteries. Either way, the requirements for the mini-superlaser will entail more robust a hull structure and power grid than either of the earlier ships, and that feeds into more survivability and survivability per ton.

Sovereign might be a decent competitor, but we know very little about it. Probably a more powerful but slower charging superlaser, probably inferior conventional armament. Comparable acceleration? Both ships have gravity well generators, later-generation electronics.

Eclipses would be more powerful by generation and shield power. Its superlaser is much larger than a Sovereign's, and while this means it's going to have tremendous hitting power as a siege platform, the focus on the prime weapon probably gimps it in space combat. The mass of the large superlaser and associated equipment, and the bracing required for it probably means the ship is rather heavy and unwieldy, not helped by the puny engine system, which is probably more to help with the recoil of the superlaser than any serious acceleration. Very tough by virtue of the structural requirements of the superlaser and the space and volume for shield generators and heatsinks, but the requirements of that system also means conventional weaponry is going to get shafted a bit; there are no obvious large turrets on the ship, and forward arcs are somewhat of an issue due to the giant superlaser-beard.

More pertinently, the slow acceleration means that any of the other ships will likely run circles around it, and be able to concentrate their relatively superior conventional firepower at weaker spots like the engines. That's if they can dodge or fake out the Eclipse's gunnery direction for the first superlaser strike (and assuming the ones that have their own superlaser doesn't land an early hit).

On a more fluff note, I figure Assertors would be a development from the Sovereign/Eclipse lineage: cleaned up, simplified, and more focused for conventional battlefleet work like a Mandator. Cheaper but heavier materials, less complicated lines and structure, more conventional weapons, superlaser more tuned for sniping large ships and stations than shattering continents. Better and more EW and comscan equipment. Less dark side temple/terror weapon and more main line fleet combatant. The first ships would have come into service after Operation Shadow Hand, as a supplement and eventual replacement for the Sovereigns, but delayed due to the general (internal) collapse of the offensive and political chaos.
Still - just because that's how it was conceived, doesn't mean that's how it has to end up.

 

Who could build them? The EotH comes to mind, or even the Pentastar Alignment, but then that would beg the question of what the Assertors were doing at Valdiusia.

 

When I look up that general area in The Essential Atlas (Kinyen to Cerea, and the Great Gran Run) it doesn't seem to have been claimed much by the Empire- certainly not in Thrawn's time- and even before that- the nearest big holding was that of Prentioch.

I wonder when Validusia fell out of Imperial control- sometime between RoTJ and the Thrawn era?

 

Or it could even be post Vong War, when the Imperials contributed warships to the general GFFA fleets.

 

Did TIE Defenders see much use though in that period?

The Imperial Remnant didn't have much in the way of shipyards by Vision of the Future- and I don't think they gained much territory during the Vong War. And can one expect them to be able to afford to build multiple Assertors, Bellators, etc?

I figure it's more likely to be early post-RoTJ.