Full Series Clones (Stormtroopers) to see in Rebels?

I'm not sure if there's a thread dealing with this or not so I figured I'd start one and see if it gets merged/locked...

I feel like the subject of TCW or other EU characters appearing in Rebels is one that is talked about a lot - specifically, I feel like everyone has their own opinions and/or fan fiction fantasy of different clone troopers - whether they be Rex, Fives, Thorn, Fox, etc.

We already know that Filoni implied the clones do not transition into being stormtroopers and it becomes more of a recruitment/conscription thing (as to be expected from the EU).

So my question to all of you:
What do you think happens to all of the individual clone troopers and the group as a whole and what role will they play - if any - in 'Rebels?'

 

They become veterans and trainers.

 

They will train people then get killed off.

 

Well, let's start first with the clone trooper whose fate we do know: Commander Cody.

I'd love to see an aged Cody training stormtrooper recruits in Kamino, and lamenting the general deterioration of their combat prowess when compared to the clone troopers during the Clone Wars.

I can see him going all:


"Just today I witnessed a new recruit hit his head on a blast door during maneuvers. Blasted idiots!"

I'd imagine that surviving clone troopers from TCW that have lived to 5 BBY while remaining loyal to the Empire would also act as combat trainers or otherwise retired.

Edit: Of course, it's possible that some clones defected when the Republic became the Empire, or some time thereafter, but that's a discussion for a future post. Specifically, I am looking at Rex's future story, which I've covered at length in the past. Should Fives survive the bonus content (an iffy proposition as of right now), he could have a similar fate, or more likely he'd become part of a rebel group, I think.

 

Because I refuse to acknowledge the anticipated retcon that the clones have more individuality and capacity to disobey orders than patriots at this point in time, I will say that I could see their mental conditioning/brainwashing to be loyal to the Republic actually going either in Palpatine's favor or against him.

Path A: Clones must love Republic; Leader of the Republic becomes leader of an Empire with the Senate's support; ergo clones support the decision of the Republic's government and therefore support the Empire.

Path B: Clones must love Republic; Leader of the Republic turns Republic into an Empire; the Empire is NOT the Republic; therefore clones begin to ally with anti-Imperial factions to restore the Republic.

If all the clones are pretty much brainwashed to love the Republic unconditionally (with the exception of a couple of "faulty" clones), then I could see things potentially backfiring when he does away with the Republic and now you have a bunch of clones that are your enemy and cannot be convinced to give up their loyalty to the Republic.

Two different outcomes being arrived at within the confines of the same basic mental conditioning and the parameter that they are loyal to the Republic, but deviating from each other based on how an individual clone perceives the events around them as fitting, or not fitting, within the confines of the loyalty that they were brainwashed with since childhood.

This would explain why a patriotic recruit might be more dependable, without introducing the concept of the clones as too individualistic or retconning the idea that they would follow orders without question.

They still may accept orders without question from the Republic, the only difference is that some clones might have different opinions on what exactly the Republic is.

 

A question that we should be asking is how the Kaminoans feel about the Empire.

 

If the accelerated aging is still in place, like in the EU, then these guys are hitting their biological 60's by this point- probably too old to be frontline(except for Vader's Fist? Those guys are still Jango clones, right? Even fighting through the OT.) but could be trainers/higher ranking officers.

What I wonder is, do the clones become Imperial Citizens? They weren't Republic citizens IIRC- but I would think it bad for morale of recruits if their superior officers or trainers weren't even citizens.

 

Well, there was a Kaminoan uprising against the Empire. It didn't last long.

 

I think it'll be interesting to see if Rebels dismisses the Kamino uprising or if they address it as a reason for switching away from clones...what year did that happen in?

Also, I wonder what will become of the Kamino cloning facilities - will the empire just end their contract with them and ignore them - or (as the polish info implies with the TCWBC) will palpatine have to "take care" of them if they know too much about Order 66 and such??

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kamino_uprising

Takes place in 12BBY, so before Rebels.

EDIT:

 

I don't think they're going to go that route to be honest - I think they're just going to focus on current citizens in the ranks of the stormtrooper corps - spaarti clones and all the "multiple template" EU stories i think are going in the trash (or just going to be ignored). As for the Kamino uprising - i could see that being acknowledged as fact - so long as the TCWBC doesn't say something stupid about Order 66 like it was a Manchurian candidate thing and now all of the clones' individuality has become erased in favor of their "we serve the emperor" programming.

 

I think there's enough basis at this point for Clones to turn on Jedi even without mental conditioning. I mean, we know public sentiment is swaying against the Jedi and the Chancellor has been playing them all along. I mean, there's a reason that the public buys his claims that the Jedi attempted to murder him and cease power. Palpatine is a master of manipulation. It's possible that he could also have done things to get into the minds of the clones.

I really do hope we see Clones who sided with both the Jedi and against the Jedi. Would be nice to see Captain Rex and Commander Wolffe in particular joining the Rebellion.

 

"There are some Clone stormtroopers" goes right back to the earliest sources. And I think it may have come from Lucas interviews- several things in the Star Wars Poster Monthly series did- like the description of Vader's injuries and how he got them.

STAR WARS: OFFICIAL POSTER MONTHLY #4
Published January 1978
http://www.theforce.net/image_popup/image_popup_global.asp?Image=timetales/misc/arcana/post4-03.jpg

Also, I'm told Jango bashing his head on the door frame of his ship - was a nod to ANH when a stormtrooper bashes his head - and a hint that this stormtrooper at least was a Jango clone.

 

Supposedly by the time of ANH the 501st was still mostly Jangoes (that's the way Vader wanted it) but all other stormtrooper units were volunteer / conscript non-clones.

 

I don't know about all other units beside the 501st being 100% non-clone- but clones would at least have been in the minority in most of them.

Allegiance mentions that the stormtrooper ranks were "opened to volunteers" some 10 years before ANH- and other sources (The Essential Guide to Warfare) mention that clone stormtroopers had become a minority.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Clone_stormtrooper

 

I wouldn't think that this would be enough without mental conditioning.

The clones spent 10 years of their life training on a planet beyond the borders of the Republic to serve the Republic, they are accelerated to adulthood in that time and all come out of training with a "for the Republic!" attitude. That's not normal to me. There would have had to be some kind of indoctrination going on there to get these guys to come out of the process with an unshakable loyalty to the Republic - a government that they weren't even a part of. They are then sold to the Republic, making them property, and making them slaves (merely by virtue that they are considered property to be sold).

They then spend three years serving a specific Jedi and getting to know that person, trust them, and in many cases (such as Yoda) actually being treated as an individual and a person to some extent, rather than just merely an expendable clone. But then all these clones are ready to just gun these Jedi down on orders from Palpatine, leader of the Republic that bought them, and to whom they were loyal before they were ever bought.

No matter how you cut it, there has to be some kind of indoctrination/brain washing going on there. The mechanism, such as whether it's a Manchurian candidate style trigger, can be debated, but I cannot fathom how this sequence of events can in ANY way be indicative of free thinking clones.

It might merely be no different than child soldiers in the real world being brainwashed (such as the Khmer Rogue using kids to spy on their parents, or the Hitler Youth being indoctrinated to put loyalty to the state above that to their parents). Children are impressionable and easily manipulated/indoctrinated, and the clones are, at the end of the day, 10 year olds that have been in training their entire life to fight for the Republic.

When Palpatine tells them to kill the Jedi, I doubt it has anything to do with an alleged Jedi rebellion. I would think it merely has to do with the fact that - Manchurian Candidate trigger or not - that the clones were indoctrinated from creation to putting loyalty to the state above all else (essentially growth accelerated Palpatine Youth).

 

I once heard someone say the stormtroopers in the OT are Jango clones. Is this true? If so then they really need to dub the voices with Morrison...

 

based on the EU backstory - not all of the OT stormtroopers are Jango clones - only the 501st - and I'm not positive but I thought it wasn't even 100% of the 501st - just a portion - everyone else is a mixture of multiple template clones and volunteers/conscripts - but its a huge percentage of volunteers and conscripts and the clones are a very small percentage of the corps.

However, just because thats the current EU backstory - that doesn't mean Rebels won't "alter" it. Like TCW did with Mandalore and many other subjects.

 

OK, I like to think that the Jango Clones are not in the OT because it just doesn't seem like they are.

 

I can't recall anything saying "only the 501st"

And not all Jango clones were grown on Kamino. In the Clone Wars novels, we find other cloning facilities grew Jango clones late in the war- but those had inferior training.

 

I really think we have a case of Filoni and these other higher ups just putting out these generalized statements to give more casual fans some kind of idea why we're going from an all clone army to an army where many of these soldiers are going to be natural-born recruits and the like, without getting into the specifics and transitional details of the change. Like how Pablo Hildalgo throws out the idea that The Force Unleashed is non-canon one day, then when he's confronted about it, quickly backtracks and starts getting more specific than his original generalized statement because he sees that he's dealing with someone who is a little more "in the know," so to speak. It really shouldn't be taken as the ultimate, definitive answer, just a general idea. What seems to be the more pertinent take away is that we'll be seeing vastly more natural-born recruits as stormtroopers by the time of Rebels than Jango clones, which is itself entirely consistent with what had been previously established.

That's what Battlefront II confirms. That while the other units are increasingly populated with non-Jango clones and natural-born recruits, the core of the 501st remains a pure, Jango clone unit up to an during a significant portion of the OT.

Earlier than Rebels, so unless they go some far-out route to contradict that, it would likely continue to be a part of that decided decline in Jango clones in the Empire.

It's not really ignoring, though, if they don't stupidly contradict it. The use of multiple templates and the Spaarti cloning cylinders exist to show the change away from the army of all Jangos, and if they have this more diverse population of troopers under the helmet by the time of Rebels, that goes together with previous canon just fine.

 

I'm going with my own explanation as: The Remaining Clones from The Clone Wars were used by the Empire, until they ran out. They made new clones, but not as many as the GAR had. So, in my personal 'canon' the Imperial Army would like something like this: 15% clone troopers, 85% drafts.

 

I think it'd be great to see one gray-haired Jango clone stormtrooper just once in the series, just to confirm they exist, but the majority can be recruits.