ST Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

Meh, I'm not really sure if I like this idea. In Heir to the Empire (5 years after ROTJ), we open with Obi Wan's ghost telling Luke that he has to "cross over". I think that this kinda makes sense. Force ghosts shouldn't be able to just linger forever - otherwise you could have the potential for hundreds of force ghosts surrounding a future young Skywalker. I think that regardless of what may happen with some obscure section of the EU, Force ghosts should only stay behind for a short time to accomplish a specific task. Also, having Luke appear as a hologram would give the droids a reason to appear in a sequel set hundreds of years in the future.

 

What is the point of retaining one's consciousness after death if not to aide the physical world? In ROTS Yoda talks about the ability of Jedi to commune with Force Ghosts:

Yoda: An old friend has learned the path to immortality. One who has returned from the netherworld of the Force... Your old master.
Obi-Wan: [surprised] Qui-Gon?!
Yoda: How to commune with him, I will teach you.

So Jedi can commune with Force Ghosts. And in ANH, Kenobi thinks of immortality in terms of power. Becoming more powerful than Vader can imagine.

The whole point of becoming a ghost, according to the movies, is to influence events in the physical world, forever.

This doesn't need to be something that gets used too often in the movies. The Jedi Ghosts can decide to show up when they think its absolutely necessary. But Jedi can commune with them whenever they want, once they learn how to do so.

 

Early EU tended to portray a Jedi Force Ghost's period of "actively influencing attempts" as usually temporary.

And, once the Jedi has moved on, communing seems to be difficult or impossible.

However, this may end up being dropped.

 

I wouldn't mind that much if a Luke Force Ghost showed up centuries in the future. I just think it makes more sense if Luke appeared as a hologram. If I were a ghost, sure I'd do some things to help out my friends before I cross over. But it must become depressing to linger for years and years and watch all of your loved ones die.
Still, I wonder if Force Ghost Anakin would also appear?

 

i wouldn't mind seeing a force ghost anakin and luke appearing to Luke's son and try to get him to let go of his anger at the villain that struck luke down.

 

I'd imagine having many of your loved ones also able to become ghosts takes the edge off somewhat

 

Are the Jedi this greedy that they want to influence the physical world forever? I find it far more likely that they willingly vanish into the force, that which they served all their life, after they've fulfilled their duty. Imo becoming a ghost is just the means to fulfill ones destiny.

Like Obi-Wan stuck around to mentor and protect Luke, which was his destiny and duty.

 

Or stuck around to influence future generations of Jedi and Luke was just the first. Maybe thats his destiny.

 

How much babysitting does this new Jedi order need? Shouldn't it be all grown up about now? Or does it still need diaper changes?

 

Influence = diaper changes? Thats just BS.

 

Yeah, I don't think influencing and mentoring equals babysitting and diaper changing.

 

No, it does not equal "babysitting", nor is it "greedy" for a Jedi to become a Force Ghost, these are interesting characterizations of the purpose of a Force ghost to say the least (or to be diplomatic). I'm not saying they should be around all day or every day, or have a seat on the Council, etc. It's just as likely that a Force ghost would show up only when their guidance is needed the most or to an individual who merits such guidance. I personally like the idea of Luke (even 55+ year-old Jedi Master Luke Skywalker) seeking the wisdom of Yoda, Obi-Wan, or Qui-Gon every now and then, just to get their point of view on a given subject. Among a few gripes I have with the EU is that I dislike the way it tried to do away with Force Ghosts. These Jedi are already one with the Force, they don't need to go anywhere and are already where beings are when they pass on to the netherworld of the Force. We'll see what TPTB have in store for us to that end in the ST, but I imagine they would stick with what has been established in the previous six films and not with what novels or comics might say.

 

Of course it is greedy if you want to live forever, if you want to meddle in the business of others forever, natural order be damned. Seems like one of the greediest things you can do.

I was being sarcastic. How much mentoring does the new generation need? Isn't it the point of "passing the torch" for the new generation to move on and take responsibility for themselves rather than be "mentored" forever and ever? Or are the Jedi beings who will never surpass their teachers and always need them, like a baby?

 

Episode 1 - Jedi master (Qui-Gon Jinn) dies in front of his student. Student comes into his own as a Jedi in later films.
Episode IV - Jedi master (Obi-Wan Kenobi) dies in front of his student. Student comes into his own as a Jedi in later films.
Episode VII - Jedi master (Luke Skywalker) dies in front of his student. Student comes into his own as a Jedi in later films.

 

Well, Obi-wan, Qui-Gon, Yoda......all greedy.

People ALWAYS need mentoring and guidence and advice from those who came before. "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it", having some force ghosts around to be a consistant reminder wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

Well, they actually weren't. Yoda in ROTJ clearly passed the torch to Luke. Then he said goodbye in a touching scene.

Yoda: Luke, when gone am I... the last of the Jedi will you be. Luke, the Force runs strong in your family. Pass on what you have learned, Luke. There is... another... Sky... walker.

He said goodbye ... forever. He didn't just leave for a lunch break.

And if the youth have learned all there is to learn from the old people? Are you suggesting they never do? How depressing.

Might as well call them the temple of Jedi babes instead of Jedi knights then.

 

New interview with Simon Kinberg

http://clubjade.net/?p=57097

 

Well they are from your defination of greedy because all 3 live forever.

Yoda didn't say goodbye forever, he said he'll be gone and LUke will bet he last Jedi. Hell, he very clearly DOESN'T say goodbye. Probably because he knows he'll be sticking around for a long time to come.

There is always new youth, hell is probably mor eimportant the further out from an event you get.

 

No. Luke has more importance to the Saga that he won't be killed in Episode 7.

 

sluggo1313.
Huh? Where do the movies say that they live forever? I took ROTJ's typical goodbye scene as just that, a final goodbye before fading into the force.

Yoda said "I will be gone". The most literal and logical interpretation is that he will be dead, gone forever, not pseudo-alive and kicking.

 

He said when gone am I, last of the Jedi will you be. He clearly isn' tcounting Obi-wan even though he still "around". Yoda won't physically be there but we know he can come back as a ghost and talk and communicate.

And from RotS - YODA: An old friend has learned the path to immortality.

Lasttime I looked immortality = living forever.

 

Yes, that's your interpretation. How about we agree to disagree?

 

At what age do you think you're smart enough and wise enough that you no longer need the counsel of those who came before? I don't think there is any shame in heeding the advice of elders.

Maybe in the GFFA, what we are seeing is the natural order. When I think of the OT and the character Obi-Wan, "greedy meddler" doesn't exactly come to mind.