ST Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

"For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

You're mischaracterizing the subject to say that Yoda would actively seek such a power. Yoda was never actively seeking ways to become immortal, to do so is perverse, and the way of the Sith, not the Jedi. Qui-Gonn had obviously learned something during his travels and decided to pass on how to do so to Yoda at some point--well after his own death. Why can't both your highlighted points and the benevolence of becoming a Force Ghost be equally true in your mind? So everyone joins with the Force upon death, Qui-Gon figured out a way to commune with the living after joining with the force (and departing his "crude matter" body), it doesn't mean he did it to hold power over anyone or for any nefarious purpose.

 

Do we know when Quigon first contacted Yoda? Until what I heard about the upcoming Clone Wars material I always thought Quigon contacted Yoda after that scene after Yoda lost to Palpatine during that deleted scene just before Yoda, Bail, and Obiwan meet to dicuss the fate of Luke and Leia. I think due to rumors that The Clone Wars season 6 material is about to set up Yoda to first hear Quigon from the neitherworld of the force just before Ep III during the last few episodes of The Clone Wars, though when he tells him of immortality is something he can achieve too or even can clearly communicate with him is another matter... at least that's what has been teased/rumored for some of those final episodes.

Anyways whos to say the Story Group now claims what if to attain it you have to be willing to let go, Yoda may have been telling him how he could be with Padme forever all along but Anakin just didn't understand and didn't care to listen. With a simple notation like this Yoda is no longer a hypocrit

Anyways point being its too soon to call Yoda hypocritical (though it could be a legit view point later), since we're ignorant of the when, why, and how of what went on between Yoda and Quigon.

 

IIRC, Yoda was at least hearing Qui-Gon as early as AotC, during the scene in which Anakin is massacre-ing the Sand People village. How long Qui-Gon had been communing with Yoda up to that point is unknown to me.

 

Is that EU, The Clone Wars material, or did I somehow miss that scene in AotC? He first appeared in the Mortis arc in season 3 of the Clone Wars.

If EU its subject to overright and now awaits approval of the Story Group.

 

It doesn't really matter when QG contacted Yoda. If Yoda tells Anakin to let go and he himself starts learning at the first opportunity how to cheat death he is still a gigantic hypocrit.

I have trouble believing the Jedi ghosts are meant to stick around forever by the force itself when Yoda states that to die (die as in ceasing to exist) is the natural course of things. Why do only the Jedi get to retain their personality and identity?

 

In the AoTC novelization- it says it's the first time - and Yoda is shocked by it. As far as he knew "one could not speak from beyond the grave."

His voice is audible- then Mace asks Yoda what's up, and Yoda says "young Skywalker is in terrible pain."

 

It's in the movie and, per Iron_lord, in the novelization of the movie as well with more detail.

 

Even that 3-film arc was really 3 separate adventures with 3 totally separate antagonists and difficulties challenging our heroes. It isn't like Khan was the main villain of that trilogy who lasted all 3 films.

 

Wow, totally had forgotten that about Qui-gons voice in AotC ... guess I got distracted surfing the net on my tablet last month when I rewatched it (likely surfing for VII news), that or my prequal trilogy hating brother started a **** fit which he does anytime something is on he doesn't want to watch (even though its my TV, dvd player, and cable subscription) which he'll do throughout the whole film since that's just his way... Family... (sometimes you just wanna incase them in carbinite )

 

This is part of the reason I hate TOR so much... making The Exile stick around as a force ghost for 300 years while interferring with the mortal world by having her force heal Revan's mind the entire time, that's right, let me repeat that she hung out for every moment of 300 years healing Reven while he was in status then hung around after he got out to help the playable characters help him (yes, even the non force sensitive ones got to see and speak to her) only to have the dark side player kill and loot him for his pants, but wait plot twist he mght still be alive... Not only did they destroy Revan and Exiles characters by doing such, they flat out just ignored how force ghosts work...

 

Don't they even know that the Exile is a "hole in the force" like Darth Nihilus? Why should she of all people be able to become a ghost?

 

Vodo Siosk-Baas came back after 4000 years to tell Exar Kun he's defeated, as the Jedi students are tackling him.

 

I didn't even thing that was his voice it was edited so weirdly. I honestly thought Yoda was flash forwarding through time to when Palpatine was emperor because the "nooooo" sounds more like Ian McDiarmid than Liam Neeson.

 

Oh, they retconned that in the book Revan with Meetra Surik (yes, that is the HORRIBLE name they gave the Exile) by thinking Kreia was just nuts and wrong... oh wait, now she's regained the force and now is just a low powered jedi again. She got to stick around though since of her bond with Revan, that bond being that of his number one fangirl (Revan's awesome and collects them... apperently).

The forward of the book was dedicated to Obsidian for their work on KotOR II btw... it felt like the middle finger to me though.

 

The liberties they take with some things is one of the reasons I only embrace part of the EU (mostly the novels) and cringe at a lot more of it. Not that I don't like the games, KotOR I and II were great games for me to play, as was TFU I, but some of the things they did I don't fully take as canon. I have yet to play TOR, though it seems like a lot of fun, so I don't know what elements I may not like such as what you have indicated here.

 

Man. Way to ruin the most intelligent EU work so far.

I'm just going to ignore it.

 

^THIS.

And additional benifit it saves you 200-600 hours of game play too, most of that... farming for resources...

The best part of that game was the trailers and HK-47's dialog "Interjection: Silence Meatbags!" Which is what I reply to anyone who considers it canon and intelligent.

 

Classic.

 

Its a MMO, Of course it has a lot of game play time and Farming. Ugh.
Despite my feelings about not wanting force ghosts to stick around, I actually liked that the exile hung onto revan until he was freed, She was fading and reached out for help to free revan. Didn't she run off to aid revan to begin with? she was a secondary character in the the overall story of Revan, Even though they made her weaker, She was betrayed, Its not like she got shot by a ewok or something.
Revan: "You should be one with the force, Finally at peace"
Exile: "No peace while you suffer"
I'm not sure how they could end revan and make everyone happy, such a popular character. But i did love that he quoted maleks last words before he vanished. I was more disappointed in KOTOR 2 then TOR.

 

Some of Kotor II dealt with the question of whether "Meetra" was a slave or not, someone who obediently and blindly followed Revan into the war. I would like to think that she of all people, someone who was spiritually annihilated by Malachor and knows exactly how much pain and destruction Revan caused (and felt it herself!), wouldn't go into Revan loving puppy mode again.

One of the few things I really dislike about KotoR II is the blatant fanservice of Kreia gushing about Revan.

 

How did I never catch that before?! Thanks.

 

Eh, I wouldn't call what happened loving puppy mode.
I wasn't really into Kreia, And they made Darth Nihilus come off as a extremely powerful and fearsome villain only to have some empty story and an easy unfulfilling victory over him

 

Regarding how much EU one can get away with "keeping" without actually mentioning it onscreen, I thought this post was pretty insightful: