main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Poll: Is the ST the conclusion of the Saga?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Mystery Roach, Jan 11, 2014.

?

Is the ST the conclusion of the Saga?

  1. Yes. Episode IX will conclude the story that began with TPM.

    35.2%
  2. No. Episode XII will conclude the story that began with TPM.

    9.9%
  3. No. The story that began with TPM will continue indefinitely.

    28.4%
  4. No. The story that began with TPM ended with ROTJ, and Episode VII will begin a new story.

    21.6%
  5. Other (Please Explain)

    4.9%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2002
    To go back to the original question, I'm sure it's being designed to serve both as a conclusion to the existing story and a beginning of the new. Personally, though, I'm not really going into this new film from the viewpoint of "I gotta find out what happens after ROTJ!" I'm anticipating the ST to feel like a reboot even if the original cast members are there in prominent roles. I would love for the new film to capture an 80s charm while likewise bringing plenty of TPM-like "jazz riffs" to the table, but my gut feeling says we're simply too far removed from the time period and creative atmosphere that would've yielded a "true" sequel trilogy. Maybe that's my age or over-exposure to Star Wars as an internet culture talking--and I'm not saying I won't enjoy Episode VII as well as Boba Fett's Revenge or whatever--but nonetheless to me the saga has already ended.
     
    Odolwa likes this.
  2. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Yeah, I guess we did get way off topic for a long time, LOL
     
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  3. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    sluggo1313. They didn't believe until one of their own is struck down in battle by this dark warrior. I consider that evidence being shoved in their face. As for Dooku, both Ki-Adi Mundi and Mace Windu refused to believe he would attempt to assassinate a senator because he was one of them once. It's only until Dooku reveals that the Sith are in control of the senate and shows off dark side abilities like Force lightning that they accept that he's turned against them. Lastly, with or without Anakin the Jedi would have been decimated by the clone troopers and Palpatine could have easily sent a star destroyer to take out the Jedi Temple. He sent Anakin because he wanted him to fully commit to being a Sith.

    And no, I meant what I said. ;)

    Lee_ True, it would be unprecedented for him to return in the flesh. I won't argue with you on that one. However, if they bring him back as a ghost and then gradually reveal his ambition to return to a physical body I think it could work. That way you contrast his ambitions of returning to the physical realm with the Jedi Force ghosts seeming peace with being one with the Force.
     
  4. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    I wouldn't be in favor of the story going in that direction or focusing on that, but that certainly makes more sense in terms of a thematic connection than the other things discussed in this thread.
     
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  5. EviL_eLF

    EviL_eLF Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Yes there is, actually.

    They themselves were in utter shock that there could be Sith without them knowing. They had all the signs of weakness and arrogance in TPM.

    Add in the fact that this Sith Lord was right in their presence and they still couldn't do a thing... They were an Order full of flaws that they couldn't see.

    That's what happens when you get complacent as they did.
     
    Mystery Roach likes this.
  6. obi_kenobi_24

    obi_kenobi_24 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2003
    I hate when people start wanting to shift the blame for what happened to the Republic onto Yoda and his Jedi. What exactly were they complacent and arrogant about??

    Im not sure what they possibly could of done different short of not training Anakin...which ironically was one of the things where they bent their "rigid" and "arrogant" system for. Staying detached and letting the force guide them is what helped them maintain peace throughout an entire galaxy nearly a Millennia.

    Give Sids his villainous props....it was a masterful plan that many villains wouldn't have the power,time, or patience to pull off.

    This is like humanity wanting to blame Superman for not taking sides or being pro active enough against rivaling nations.....which could diffuse a war......but at what cost to the trust and symbol that is Superman. If he took sides and became more attached to this faction or that making moves for them....then a certain amount of people will see him as the enemy.

    The Jedi like Superman have to be seen and employ a certain level of detachment, they have to remain above the usual level of politics and pettiness of the ordinary folks so as to be seen as a constant symbol of hope and trust.....less they become a tyrannical force/figure themselves by one faction or another
     
  7. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    The only aspect of what happened to the Republic that I've specifically blamed the Jedi for (in part) is their own destruction, although they did fail magnificently in their role as the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy. Corruption in the Senate and Palpatine's deceit were mostly what led to the rise of the Empire though. And I do give Sidious his dues for orchestrating all of it, but he did it by recognizing and exploiting the flaws and weaknesses of both the Jedi and the Republic.
     
    Ryus and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  8. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Yes, and I don't know how many times I have to state that for it to be read and comprehended. I personally am not talking about resurrection, but unnatural means of sustaining life. Life can be sustained indefinitely. That's a kind of physical immortality.

    But I agree with you that resurrections could easily work and are thematically related. See, as you and I know, themes tend to be general. They can be worked into the plot in specific ways. But the theme of immortality itself raises a whole host of related concepts.

    By the way, doesn't the ROTS novelization (or script?) make it pretty clear that Sidious wants to rule for a thousand years? That means he planned on staying alive for an unnaturally long time. So at least the EU (recent EU) represents Palps ambitions for physical immortality.

    But of course, we're suppose to think Palp was interested in a natural lifespan. He only wanted to live to be a ripe old 80, and he had no desire to live longer. This contradicts his love of worldly power, of course, but let's ignore that. The ultimate achievement of worldly power would be physical immortality.
     
  9. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012


    Okay, maybe NOT zero suspense. Of course you can have suspense with regards to individual storylines for marginal characters that don't play into the overall conflict, but my point is why would we care for these minor characters? In the case of spinoffs for characters we care about so long as we know their ultimate fate we lose the suspense and sense of importance or urgency to their story. This was a redundant complaint about the PT -- we knew what happened to Anakin and Obi-wan, Yoda and the twins etc... I really can't imagine caring about BoShek, Prune Face, Lobot or Sebulba. Disney has said that the spinoffs are about characters that are marghinal or minro to the overall saga (paraphrasing) so they better be damned good stories and characters with at least a semi-cult following.

    I answered this in the first but will state that you can have suspense within a film IF you care about the character. Why would we care about BoShek or Aurra Singg etc... ??? I guess what I'm saying is that unless the character does play a part to the central conflict then why would we care? Also, if the story takes place in the past, a glorified history, then why would we care?

    No, I didn't say that these stories were not part of the central conflict. You can introduce new heroes in the ST that become the new heroes for the future episodes rather easily as well. They continue with the central conflict Jedi vs Sith (or some derivation) as well as whatever galactic conflict remains. And to go further you can even jump the next episode to whatever time frame suits the story best (say five, ten or even more years.) By then the Skywalkers and Solos can be all but phased out completely. Also, there's no reasosn to completely phase them our right away if Disney chooses. EXAMPLE: say we're introduced to a Nomi Skywalker in Episode 7 -- Luke's daughter. She and her cousin(s) become the central figures for 8 & 9. WHY not keep them going in another trilogy? Why not phase them out after say Episode 10? Perhaps Niomi gets married and accepts her husband's name. Perhaps the Skywalker name dies out? I mean there are ways to do this. Just because it hasn't been imagined syet doesn't mean it couldn't be done well and really cool. I just think ending the saga after Episode 9 is really myopic.

    I think this last quote is the weakest point of your post in that you give people very little credit:

    1- Star Wars is a phenomenon and people know it. It's known, beloved, and anticipated all over the world YET people are gonna get confused? Really?! They're NOT going to get "all confused" because the episodes keep going. That makes no sense at all. What is more confusing is introducing all these random spinoffs without any context for where and when they fit into the SW universe. That will be confusing as hell. In the very least I could see a series entitled The Old Republic, which I've always advocated, but not by itself without the central conflict still raging. Then, as I said, it becomes a glorified history lesson.

    2- It will be a fatal mistake for Disney to wrap up the central conflict in Episode 9. As I said everything post the central conflict loses all sense of importance and urgency. Spinoff characters can have individual suspense in that IF we care about them and don't already know about them then their fates are a surprise, but, again, why would we bother seeing these marginal characters to begin with if they have no real importance to the central story? Now, I admit I would see a Boba Fett movie because it'd be cool, but I can't think of too many characters that I think would make great spinoffs:

    - we will see Han's fate so basically his movie will be a glorified history
    - Boba Fett -- we know his fate
    - Obi-wan -- we know his fate
    - Yoda -- we know his fate
    - I think a Kyle Katarn movie would be cool if he's somewhat like the games

    3- I can't imagine Disney paying 4 Billion for arguably the most successful and beloved franchise in the histpry of mankind only to shut it down after 3 more episodes. ASfter D-Day George said he gave Disney enough material to keep making SW for the next 100 years. I can't imagine that we will eventually get more spinoffs and historic SW movies set in the distant past than we will the central conflict/mythology of good vs evil and Jedi vs Sith. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. And, furthermore, as I've said over the last year, Disney/LFL is at a place where they can continue the movies in serial form in perpetuity. NOT exactly like the Flash Gordon serials but similar in that they can continue forward with cliffhangers setting up each subsequent episode.
     
    Odolwa likes this.
  10. StoneRiver

    StoneRiver Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2004
    triple post Echo-07? Chorus will be after you :p

    I get what you're saying, I just see it differently. all good my friend.

    But for the record, I have never stated Disney will wrap up SW after episode IX, but rather just the Skywalker Saga. I have every faith they will bring out further stand alone SW films, and also different sagas set in the GFFA.;something like Star Wars The New Republic: Episode 1: The Elephant Connotation. And not tack these additional stories onto the episodes we are getting now. The "central theme" as you put it can still be included without it being a continuing episode. My own preference is to keep this saga as the Skywalker Saga. But that's me.

    And for us to care about the characters, no matter how small a part they may have had in the movies so far, is a job for the writers. If they fail we won't care and we won't watch. But the same can be said about any new movie.

    Speaking personally, I wouldn't be interested in seeing episode 27 of a series if I haven't seen all of the preceding 26 episodes, and by the time they get to episode 27 there will be many people that haven't seen all of the previous episodes. Not people like us obviously. It would be because of those people I would say it's a marketing nightmare to continue the episode numbers ad infinitum.

    But like I say, that's just me, and you have a differing view. Boring as hell if we didn't :)
     
  11. sluggo1313.

    sluggo1313. Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2013

    They said they'd look into it, but what evidence did they ignore? As you said, once they had evidence they didn't deny it at all.

    So ONLY Sith would assassinate someone? DId anyone say Dooku was a Sith and that they didn't believe it?

    THere are dozens of ways you can build that chain of events without Anakin. What we do KNOW is that Anakin was there and was a key player in the Order coming down, more so then anyone else.


    Utter shock? LOL. There is NOTHING to show them in "utter shock".

    And all that is also true of Qui-Gon, the person lots of fans say had it right the whole time........
     
  12. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    That was clearly an accident. Either that, or Echo-07 had a massive senior moment.
     
    Echo-07 likes this.
  13. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    A Chorus of Disapproval, Thank you for your understanding. I made the post, but it never registered on my computer. :oops: Instead I got the black box in the upper right hand corner that kept pulsing. Then I had to go before finding out if it posted. Apologies all around.

    StoneRiver, and to all those that agree with your viewpoint, no hard feelings here. ;) The debate is a fun one and one of those that is more out incredulity than anything else. In all honesty, I don't want to experience that feeling after ROTS fever died and there wasn't much hope of more movies. That said, the current series has a sense of importance and urgency. My only real point (aside from wants and thinks and marketing strategies) is that importance will be lost if the series ends at 9 even if they launch new series and spinoffs ad infinitum.
     
    StoneRiver likes this.
  14. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    I'm not sure it's possible to maintain that sense of importance and urgency for long once there's a new Star Wars movie coming out every 1 to 2 years, regardless of how they're labeled.
     
    Revious Nugo likes this.
  15. sluggo1313.

    sluggo1313. Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2013

    They are able to do with Marvel
     
    Ryus and Echo-07 like this.
  16. Mystery Roach

    Mystery Roach Chosen One star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2004
    For now.
     
    Revious Nugo and Dra--- like this.
  17. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2012
    I don't know why they can't do your suggestion like this Star Wars: Episode X The Elephant Connotation. I guess where we are disconnecting is that (say SW was a TV show) you want there to be a spinoff series while I think the series can continue with new characters. Really, just splitting hairs. The argument that doesns't compute for me is that people are used to watching long episodic series -- ER, Friends, LOST, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad. How is it that those series can continue and be interesting and exciting and whatnot but Star Wars has to end at 9??? It doesn't make sense to me. Movie-wise there's been like 20 something James Bond films. Wolverine has had about 6 or 7 movies. The Avengers have had (or will have) 10 movies before Avengers 2. My opinion is that Episode 9 doesn't have to conclude the series.
     
  18. Ganger

    Ganger Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 9, 1999
    You know, a couple of years ago I would've said: "Please no more Star Wars films! Star Wars is done!", but right now I'm sort of psyched about the ST. If a new trilogy is released 10 years from now, I may have children then and would love to take them to see a new Star Wars movie. I'll probably hate it, but I just don't care anymore, The way I see it; we already have the prequels, another bad trilogy once I'm entering my 40s, whatever.
     
    Dra--- likes this.
  19. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    How does this work with your preference for a Plagueis return? I'm going to assume that Palpatine disposed of his body after the murder.


    No, I don't think he was "disinterested". But he was ruler of the galaxy. He might have had more pressing concerns than seeking for esoteric ways on how to cheat death. He has also seen were Plagueis experiments lead him ... exactly nowhere. He does sound like he thinks of Plagueis as a fool, after all.
     
    Lee_ likes this.
  20. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Plageuis- Body disposed of
    Palp- Body exploded in shaft
    Vader- Body burned
    Takes care of that.
     
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  21. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    We never see his body disposed of. All we have is Palpatine's word that he killed him and as we know from Darth Vader/Luke's father that doesn't mean anything.
     
    Dra--- and Force Smuggler like this.
  22. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 21, 2008
    "I killed him in his sleep" is one of the very few things we actually know about Plagueis. I'm just going ahead and saying he's dead unless they use the clone-plot or something.
     
  23. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    No, but people have a way of doing that when they murder someone. Especially when they are taking the dead person's place. It is doubtful he is going to have him cryonically frozen like urban legend had Walt Disney being- the Sith kill the master, then take a apprentice, and the cycle moves on. I doubt Palp intended to bring him back after a cold-blooded murder in his sleep; I don't see Palp wanting strong competition, and someone equally powerful trying to kill him in revenge.

    The 3 unquestionably died, and their bodies are destroyed, so you would have to work from there.
     
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  24. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 31, 2012
    No matter how obvious it might seem Plagueis' body being destroyed is still only an assumption. Palpatine may have placed his master's body in a tomb on Korriban or may have frozen him in carbonite to keep him as a trophy like Jabba. Point is his body is never shown on screen to have been destroyed so if GL wants to use him he doesn't have to start with his body being destroyed. He can start wherever he wants because as it stands right now we only have the word of Palpatine that he killed him.
     
  25. Lee_

    Lee_ Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2012
    True, but I think that gets stretchy, because then someone has to come along and resurrect that body, and what is that going to be? Someone that stowed away all this time waiting to resurrect him? Some hunchback assistant with buggy eyes named Igor that works in a lab of bubbling cauldrons drawing massive electricity from the sky to bring him back? I guess people want that, but I don't care for it; that's a little too Frankenstein for me.

    I think your other idea is much better (Palp being a force ghost in a somewhat similar way as the Jedi, but trying to find means to become physical and/or affect the material world); it isn't stretching out and diluting what we already know as SW, and makes a strong thematic connection rather than a tangential one. I think that is much more likely to be something they would do.

    My preference would be new villains, and Palp finds a way to whisper I their ears here and there to guide/assist them.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.