ST Official Sequel Trilogy / Legends / Expanded Universe discussion thread

If you're a "non-reader", how do you know what I wrote?

 

Sorry for the double post... but their was an update to this rumor on ClubJade. Timothy Zahn denied meeting with JJ, up to you to descide if this invalidates the rest of rumor or not...

http://clubjade.net/?p=57227

 

I thought their was more in there,than just Zahn plus Jason Ward tweeted that he'd heard the Zahn rumor before.

 

Yeah I never bought the Timothy Zahn meeting JJ rumor. Even if Zahn invented a certain character, the Disney regime is free to do whatever they want since LFL owns the character's usage. They don't need to consult Zahn with anything, and they certainly don't need his permission.

I think it's nothing more than fanboy rumor-wishing by using the guy who is the first and arguably most prominent of the post-ROTJ writers.

 

The problem with "nice gestures" is that "nice gestures" can lead to lawsuits. If Zahn consulted on the movie, he would probably want credit and he might just want a payday. Maybe he's not that kind of guy - but maybe he is.

As it stands, I don't even think he would get a "Character created by...." credit because, even though it's true, those authors sign over all their rights when they accept a deal to slap the Star Wars label on their books....

 

I guess I am a movie fan I really don't understand this outrage over the EU I am also a fan of many scifi space operas and the Alternate Universe theory is something that helps me if something happens that I don't like in my AU it did not happen. The last time I brought this up on this board I got told that is Star Trek and was basically dismissed. The way I see it SW has many universes now movies and the EU wasn't always this way but if people just accept this fact they will be happier but I don't think they will just a feeling. I also like Harry Potter and there are 2 canons in my head the books then the movies some stuff is a little different but the story was the same hope I didn't offend anyone.

 

I was in the camp of "they'll just keep post-ROTJ EU characters in name only," but thinking about it, and adding this rumor to it, I'm not so sure that that's such a hot idea. I was okay (grudgingly so) with the idea of having a Jacen and Jaina in name only in the movies, but after reading the rumor at starwars7news.com, even the thought of that sounds kind of stupid to me. Just create new ones.

I had said in another post that they should just dump the idea of Han and Leia having twins named Jacen and Jaina because I imagine it would be annoying to EU fans sitting in the theater checking off the differences in their head between the movie Jacen and Jaina, and the EU Jacen and Jaina. So just forget it altogether and have Han and Leia adopt a son and name him Bail, or just have one child (so the whole "Force" thing can be passed along) and name him Bail or her Breha or something. And now you're free and clear. And maybe for minor post-ROTJ EU characters you can do the whole "based on" thing.

 

The sort of EU fans that bug me are the ones who privilege the EU > the films. I just can't understand that.

 

I'm not outraged by whatever they are doing to the EU. But personally i became a huge star wars fan due to the EU, So to see it swept away and told to "Picture in your head that it matters" Is kind of sad.

 

there is no real way to make everyone happy I am afraid

 

But there are objective standards. We call it prosody. Understanding how syllables work best together and in conjunction with the sound of vowels and consonants. Writers that know what they're doing have had some training in prosody, and they also have been trained to recognize self-parody. So if you know what any of this means, you'd perceive the problems too.

This is why it's best for professionals to make these decisions and not fans.

 

Yep. I really can’t wrap my head around that one, either. Star Wars is a film franchise. Not a series of books that were adapted into films. What really got them into SW in the first place: the films, or the Thrawn trilogy? Surely the answer is the former?

 

Well considering 3 of those films were a fine cocktail of every possible toxin known to man combined into one drink you were forced to guzzle, the EU was the medicine got us through those Dark Times. So it deserves a little credit.

 

Personally, I don't mind the EU as concept work. Now when or if it's used, it can be improved on.

I think a lot of EU only fans don't realize the writers aren't that good. They're not at the same creative level as Lucas, Arndt, JJ, Kasden, etc. Star Wars writers aren't even considered literary. They are genre hacks.

 

How are you defining 'the films' in this instance?

1. I-VII only, so fans who prefer the EU to the movies
2. The ones who want things from the EU in VII, regardless of what you feel of the EU could hinder what you believe VII should be or needs
3. The ones who don't like how the PT did things vs what was the PT retconned in the EU and are adiment about their beliefs.

Point one is just subjective taste... maybe these fans where introduced to the EU first or a young girl who didn't find any strong female character to latch on to in the two trilogies where as the EU had tons (say whatever you want to about Leia being stong back in the day, but to modern day teens Hunger Games has more and arguably stronger females in its movies... and this is just one example). Star Wars has grown beyond being just movies decades ago... hell by dollars it might as well be a toy franchise with some tie in movies, video games, books and comics. Its true, from a certain point of view.

To point two this is just differences of opinion between two groups desiring different things from VII, if so I feel what you posted is a low blow. Might as well just post you don't understand those who disagree with you and be more honest about it. Its simple really, some feel the EU for all its flaws has much to offer even if new ground is to be explored and that's why TCW borrowed from it in the first place while others only care about not limiting the writers since they feel exploring new ground is best without hinderence at all. Sad thing is neither group maybe more or less right... but both are passionate about it.

To point three... this one is interesting, since imho nothing is ever perfect and talking how things could have been different and how it would effect things I just find interesting. Its true that whinning over what is doesn't change it but then again fans aren't drones and will have differing opinions, but that's the beauty of Star Wars it vast enough with tens of thousands of years to play in. So eventually if you stick with Star Wars even in periods and stories you hate a new one could be coming that you'll love... imho there is nothing wrong with venturing an opinion and letting your feelings known, fans disagree what the best part of any and every franchise out their all the time.

 

I dig the general idea these (probably 100% made up) rumors are going with. Look to the EU for inspiration and a wealth of resources that flesh out the galaxy but don't hold them up as truth. (the stuff that expands the Expanded Universe is the EU wherein they give each space alien and planet a name and history, etc.) Actually, we've seen this pop up in Star Trek over the years, once in awhile something from the novels will pop up in the series. As for the Mara Jade of it all, I think the core concept of the character (former Imp, redhead, has The Force, loves Luke) is a good basis to take from. And if they use the name, it'd be a shout-out, nod to that decades of EU history. I don't get the whole "if they use Mara Jade it HAZ TO 100% BE EXACTLY LIKE TEH NOVELS!!!! Which means she should be dead anyway and it all should be set after the last novel!! And Jania Solo and Han's Grandkid, etc." I find that kind of thought to be pointless and a creative dead end for the filmmakers. But, hey, it's a character that has some weight, is easily defined, and some folks get the reference for Geek Points.

As her name being silly, well, Star Wars across all platforms is full of very, very silly names.

 

Yes this idea of weak EU names needs to go Mustafar. Its complaining about Alderaan things. Plus in general is Moribund in the context of Star Wars names from the movies being just as bad often enough. It needs to quit with its Skywalking and be less Sidious with intended jabs that amount to nothing more than personal preference.

I get it Star Wars has lots of weaker names but its both a fault of the movies and EU.

 

They could seriously call the bad guy "Villainous Mustache Twirler" by this point I wouldn't even bat an eyelash.

 

Like I said, if you understand prosody and self-parody, then you'll understand the problem with names like Mara Jade. It's not purely subjective. There's a difference between a sonnet and a villanelle. There's a difference between a hack writer and authentic Star Wars. The it's subjective argument is mainly for fans who can't discern the difference between these things.

 

This is one of the things that I have never figured out when it came to hardcore EU fans (although, if you're a hardcore fan of anything then that's probably all the explanation that's needed)... But I've never understood why they thought any EU anything "counted." I remember as a little kid and reading the Marvel Star Wars comics and never once thinking that any of this is actually what happened as far as the movies were concerned; I never once thought that issue #7 was what actually happened next. And seeing "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" in B. Dalton books at the mall as a kid, I never thought that that was anything more than a Star Wars novel and no more important or official than the comics.

I guess the only thing I looked at as "official" were the guides or manuals, and even that was just there for fun and not something that was written in stone and couldn't be touched.

Anyway, it's just weird to me that there's people who actually thought any EU stuff "counted." If they enjoyed it, sure, that's fine. But to expect it to be anything beyond something that you enjoyed always puzzled me. Especially if you've been reading it for years because if that's case then surely you're well aware of it's status.

EDIT: Everything going forward of course will "count," so Disney is doing the right thing by getting that out ahead of time.

 

Yes, cause prosody and self-parody are the only two good qualifiers for good names... glad you told me this George Lucas. I'm so glad you didn't name your lone smuggler Solo since name entamology connecting to the characters archtype is so overrated for example, I mean really "bitter woman" is such a horribly innacturate discription of her... or wait, never mind.

Glad you can read my mind and can tell me I thought it counted... and not it really being the seperate issue of us wanting it to count at least partially after spending between all of us billions on it.

 

Entamology?

I rest my case.