CT Does anyone else actually like Anakin's "NOOOO" added in ROTJ?

Make it 1001!

 

I've articulated specifically what I think was wrong with it before, but my signature (which is not meant as a specific response to this, incidentally) really says all I will ever need to say on this subject.

 

Basically this.

 

People are too easily embarrassed.

 

It ruined the imagery. Do we *really* need it spelled out that Vader is undergoing a massive inner-conflict between Palpatine and Luke? Are we, the audience, *really* that stupid? What's next? A later version implanting ghost images of Padme and Shmi (and maybe even Kid!Anakin) on Luke's side of the frame imploring Vader to do the right thing? Maybe have the ghosts 'help' Vader lift up Palpatine to toss him into the reactor? Then when he is leaning against the railing, he mutters, "Padme...Mother...I do this for you..." before Luke gets to him?

Because, y'know, we can't expect the audience to use their heads and contemplate the motives of a character on screen. Especially if it's the character looking back and forth between Luke and Palpatine, pausing as he does so...as if...as if he's trying to make up his mind. No, no, too vague and blank. We need to make it obvious.

 

It was not needed and a downgrade to the film. After seeing it on youtube, I decided not to buy the bluray set. My DVDs are good enough for now. It implies that the audience is too stupid to realize that Vader is struggling internally and finally chooses to save his son. The looking back and forth is enough. The drama is increased because we cannot see the face behind the mask. We know Vader is in conflict and it's escaping the Emperor's vision of events.

Disney really needs to re-release the saga without some of these changes.

*the other horrible changes IMO:

The Jedi Rocks scene in Jedi taking the place of the original Max Rebo Band song
Greedo shooting first
the extra rock in front of R2 in ANH (how did he get in there???????)
"the comic relief" (yes in quotes on purpose lol) of the speeder almost hitting the Ronto in ANH

The others are fine.

 

Have to agree with anti-Nooooo comments here. For me, the power of the moment has been undermined. Before the change, I had always been amazed at how much emotional power and content was communicated through just the music, lighting effects, Vader's silently looking at Luke, then at the Emperor, then back at Luke, etc.. Pretty impressive when you consider we were just looking at an impassive, mechanical mask!

 

I know you won't like to hear this, but you guys have gotten it wrong.
Anyone who believes that the scene in its original shape didn't get the point across, that Anakin went through inner turmoil and finally snapped out of it, would be very dumb.
So that's obviously not why the "no" was added.
It was added just to make him seem more human, more emotional, more Anakin.
You don't have to like it, but please dislike it for the right reasons.

 

Now we're talking!

I just feel that he's less robotic and more human. The fact that he says something makes it feel like he's there, in the moment, as a human being, responding vocally and... I just like it. Anakin is human again and I like it!

 

Lulu: Those of us that dislike this change do dislike it for the 'right' reasons. It's simply that we don't have to agree with you on what 'right' means. It's down to perceptions.

 

Not when people seem to misinterpret the motive behind it.

 

Lulu: Again, perceptions. You may not like it but they *differ* and that's all right.

 

It's an example of two of the things that I felt were the weak points of the PT.

The first is valuing telling instead of showing. There were more than enough non verbal elements in play that suggested that Vader/Anakin was conflicted and eventually chose to save his son. To add an overly melodramatic verbal cue in there ruins the poignancy of the moment. It would be like if during the wampa cave scene in ESB Luke said "I will use the force" before reaching out for his lightsaber. We get it. No words needed.

The second is the continued practise of going back and editing bits of the OT to make them fit the PT. It's like telling a long joke, delivering the punchline and then deciding that you need to go back and retell the first half again differently so people will get it.

 

It doesn't make him more human. It makes him more of a cartoon character.
It diminishes the greatness of the moment. What the "Nooo" was trying to achieve was already achieved by John Williams Force theme playing as he lifted the Emperor above his head.

John Williams completed the scene. "Nooooo" diminishes it.

Was a thousand times better when he silently musters the will to come back, tosses the Emperor overboard, and than you see him on the ledge wheezing like a wounded animal.

It kind of blows my mind anyone likes this change.

 

I feel the EXACT same way!
And actually, it isn't the same no from ROTS, not sure where they got it from. He clearly says it differently... maybe it was an alternate take

 

I don't really understand these refutations of "it's calling us stupid". We still see him struggling silently for a bit. The first "No..." only comes like 2 seconds before the big "NOOOO". Still plenty of time to interpret his thoughts until then, then the first one is like a "Was I right?! Is there a glimmer of hope after all?!" then with the second one, it, just as his birth as Darth Vader, beautifully parallel's Vader's death and the rebirth of Anakin Skywalker.

Anakin is as he always was. He didn't repress his emotions, he vibrantly displayed them, whether he wanted to or not.

Of course this is all my personal perception, but I just thought I'd share it. Ironically, in contrast to most people here, not only do I find it more emotional and more symbolic, but just more exciting in general! Spine chills and tears every time

 

Prequel Anakin was horrible and OT Vader was amazing. No need to bridge the gap between shoddy film making and script writing by making OT Vader more like poorly executed Anakin.
Seriously, why not just add a scene in ANH with Vader telling Tarkin, "The Emperor is overly critical, he never listens, he's jealous, it's not fair!!"

Oh, God, I hope Lucas isn't reading this!

 

That's your right. Just as those of us that don't read it like you do are entitled to our views. You like it, great. Some of us don't need words to make the scene's point.

WAC: Love the Tarkin ref and the proposed Vader lines. Tarkin wouldn't care though. I don't think OT Vader needs to be like PT Anakin. It would make the character seem to be regressing, IMO. I agree with your sentiments.

 

I suspect if the prequels were re-done by a strong script writer, strong actor as Anakin, and strong director, Anakin defenders would look back and see how bad he actually was in what we've been given so far.
Imagine a young Russell Crow portraying Anakin as "the great Jedi Knight" and then compare it to Hayden's bratty whining and complaining.

You would look back at the original Anakin with the same level of hate most people have for Jar Jar Binks.

 

Let's hope not. I bet he'd write down notes to implement the 'ghosts at the end' idea I had into a later edition of ROTJ.

@ Lulu- What's there to misinterpret? We know from the context of the scene and Vader's body language *exactly* what's happening. Let me break it down for you. Luke (the hero, and Vader's son) is being tortured by Palpatine (Vader's master). Luke had spent all that time previous to this moment telling Vader that there is hope for him, that he can come back. Luke *will* die if Vader doesn't do anything. Palpatine had made that very clear with his "...you will die." line. Luke is going to die a slow, painful death.

At this exact moment, it's a literal do or die decision for Vader. Does he just stand there and let Palpatine kill Luke, or does he intervene knowing he'll likely die himself in the process? That's why he looks back and forth, he's trying to figure out what he should really do. The second he looks at Palpatine and begins lunging at him, we know he's made up his mind. Palpatine will die, and the man inside that black armor is Anakin Skywalker. The music, the atmosphere, and the body language was all bringing one thing to the forefront of our thoughts. Anakin Skywalker has returned, if only for a little while.

But it's your right. I disagree, however, but you get to believe that this was a good change.

 

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

This is an important scene in Empire Strikes back that highlights why Anakin is special, and what makes him the most powerful Jedi of all time.
It's something EU authors and video game designers have regularly dumped on with their inability to understand the importance of dialogue.

There is no coming back from the dark side, period.It's what was supposed to make Anakin's story unique to the whole history of the Force. It's not something you hop back and forth between at your leisure.

So for me there's just no topping the original scene, which was building and building and building and finally culminates with John William's musical score lifting the audience as Vader lifts the Emperor and struggles with him over to the reactor shaft.

He should of left it alone.

Seems to me it was just Lucas trying to come up with worthless ways to justify yet another re-release . $$$$$$$$$ > art

 

To be fair to the Special Editions, this was not added until the Blu-Ray version. Just checked the rip of it I have on my computer from the DVD, and there is no "Noo."

I think it's fine to not like changes made to the Star Wars movies, but complaining or hating Lucas for them is a bit much. Just watch the version you like. If you like the original versions, buy the tapes off Ebay, get a VCR from Goodwill, and have yourself a good ol' time. Contrary to popular belief, the changes weren't automatically uploaded to all prior recordings and media.