Full Series The Official TCW Music Discussion Thread

If Maul is alive we SO need Duel of the Fates ... Kiner is not bad he is not John Williams but i am pretty happy with season3 music- if only episodes would have been better some leitmotifs are in perfect places to remind this is Star Wars- Mortis-trilogy really needed that and i like the way "Mortis-theme" was actually force theme with end changed that was brilliant idea when entire arc was about the nature of the Force.... not my fav arc but music with Forcetheme, Qui-Gon's theme, Imperial March and all was wonderfully added there (was even Shmi-theme there i'm not sure?)- kudos to Kiner

He is good composer but John Williams is genious and we cannot really compare him with Kiner- i love SW-music but i think Saga>TCW in almost every aspect..... including music....

 

I'm pretty sure Shmi's theme was there, though I usually skip over that bit of the episode when I rewatch it.

Speaking of Mortis, as well as the Battle of the Heroes bit that everyone knows about, in Ghosts I hear a Force Unleashed trumpet bit when Anakin is descending into the Well. Anyone else noticed this?

 

No i didn't.... yeah they use lot of hidden sounds/musics i think... thanks- yep just like TFU-theme i think it's intentional addition...

 

I'm pretty sure it's the same music from Season 1 if it's not a new piece created specifically for an episode.

If I'm being honest, very few TV shows running on a (nearly) weekly basis will have completely new and original scores for each new episode. It just pushes the cost up unnecessarily. The films can all have separate and original scores because they're feature-length one-off projects. Therefore they can afford it, both money and time-wise. That formula just does not work with an episodic TV show, especially one with a lot of stories to produce. When Flioni and his crew have tough deadlines to reach, I think it's perfectly acceptable to cut away at any unnecessary burdens.

 

I'm not even referring to his musicianship. I'm referring to the fact that he rips off tons of other works and scores and somehow has gotten away with it.

 

I don't think he ripped them off. Inspired by them maybe, but not ripped off.

 

Kiner definetely rips some of his music from other sources. A piece of music from Dracula is in Downfall of a Droid and Aurra Sing's theme is from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

 

I'm sure they got permission to use those parts.

 

I can't remember which episode, but in season one there's a part where he totally rips off part of the soundtrack from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. I mean, the same rhythm, the same melody, I couldn't believe it.

 

In TCW-movie music that starts when Anakin and Ahsoka go to gunship and fly to meet Obi-Wan and Yoda- it sounds almost exactly like theme from TV-series Hornblower.... then in the end of the Lapr i can hear many other movie themes mixed... and i think Tarkus means Cat and Mouse- it has Star Trek- like music...

 

Why would they give him permission to rip off other's pieces with NO acknowledgement of them in the credits after each episode? Especially considering back around the time of the movie, in an interview, he said that each episode would be scored individually without a lot of the same music used over and over. Yeah right. He can't even keep to his own promise to use his own music SPARINGLY; he uses previously written cues all the time, and when those don't work, he resorts to ripping-off others' work.

 

I don't know. But they've already admitted the Dracula one. It was made on purpose, not to "rip off" other people's work just for the sake of doing so.

What?

Not true.

Any source for that statement?

 

Generally he does reuse other material. It's noticeable.

 

As long as it feels like star wars music. It doesn't have to be ripped straight from the movies but it needs to use the same techniques John Williams used. Force unleashed was a good example I think. The music has gotten a lot better then when this series had started out.

 

Well, yes. This last episode has a bit of Grievous Intrigue music. But he doesn't reuse the music all the time. Not even generally.

 

I disagree. I quite liked the music in Season One but disliked it starting with Season Two. Sure, techno music didn't quite fit into Star Wars, but it was better than barely noticable background music.

 

In my opinion, when that happens is when the music is doing it's job.

 

ugh go to Fisto's Disco if you want other than background music - this shouldn't be musical so i disagree..... Techno is nice but not in wrong place- Battle of Bothawui in Downfall of the Droid was awful because of the music IMO

LAtely music have been good but still not enough Williams' leitmotifs- no Dotf.... damn they need to have it in some episode

 

Honestly, I used to think people who hated the guy were either too cynical or just whiners, but I'm starting to really wish they had someone else. John Williams actually got that he was writing for a space opera and literally composed just that. This guy...it's like he's trying to do Star Wars crime drama version. As some have said, it's "mood" music. There are no memorable melodies. It's not that he does a horrible job, but that he doesn't fulfill the potential that's there, which is what we're used to. So maybe I am just whining, just a bit. But I'm still not really a fan anymore.

 

Unlocked for your convenience.

 

There have not been discussions like these since the days of March 2011...

I agree with this, but I can recall a number of themes off the top of my head:

Kiner created the Death Watch theme. It could be heard in S2 and most recently in A Friend In Need. It's not the most moving of themes, but it's quite memorable.

Better than that is the Republic military theme, which plays whenever the Republic military does something heroic (in other words, all the bloody time ). The best example of it, IMO, is in Citadel Rescue, when the star destroyers exit hyperspace and deploy their starfighters. However, it's not as stirring as the Jedi Temple March which, for me, symbolises the clone troopers and the Republic military during the Clone Wars.

There was a new variant on the "Binary Sunset" Force Theme for the Mortis arc. It was quite memorable.

Of course, there's also the spamming of the Imperial March whenever Anakin does/says/thinks anything remotely evil, but that's not an original melody. All in all, Kiner is reasonably competent, but not up to John Williams standards.

 

In the recent preview of the next episode, you can hear Boba's theme (or Aurra's) and Cad Bane's on a single scene. I think Kevin made some recognizable themes for the series, people just don't notice because it became natural. And that's where we see if music is working or not.

If there is an item I've been looking forward to buy ever since the first season, it's the series soundtrack. On TCW movie OST, there was a great tune called "The Jedi Council". I hope to hear it more often.

P.S: I don't think it's fair to compare John Williams to Kevin Kiner, not to mention that they are working on different mediums.

 

Is there another thread discussing the news that Kevin Kiner has posted a ton of TCW tracks on his website at http://www.kevinkiner.com/music/

 

About the claims of Kiner ripping off John Williams...

I'm sorry guys, but John Williams is a MASSIVE ripoff artist. For Star Wars, all you need is some Holst and Stravinsky and you can piece together a near-identical score; after all, GL had the Rite of Spring dubbed in as a temp track over the Dune Sea scenes as a starting point. And more power to JW; he started as a jazz guy, then found a buried talent for reappropriating century-old classical styles to fit the films he scores. All it means is that he's not wholly original, but neither is Star Wars... and obviously that doesn't mean it's bad. At whatever point it stops being a feat of creative or technical prowess, it becomes a feat of pop-cultural prowess, and you need both for the kinds of scores he writes.

 

Guess this is it, he-guy. Strange that everyone seems so mum about such a wealth of free Clone Wars music. Just downloaded the 50+ Clone Wars cues from Kiner's page (http://www.kevinkiner.com/music/) and was having a bit of trouble putting them in chronological order. Anyone want to help me out?